Skull and Bones POD

Valamyr · Feb 9, 2004

The Order of the Skull and Bones is probably the most powerful WASP structure in America, and in fact, the most influential whatsoever to have ever existed on this side of the Atlantic. Their highly selective membership currently includes President GWB (and his father before him), 5 members of the current Bush administration, a supreme court judge, several known senators, dozens of personas of the intelligence community and of the finance world, ambassadors to Europe, etc. For an organization that has less than 700 members alive at any time, its quite the success. And in november, they'll have won the presidency for the 3rd time in 16 years for sure. Why? Because the only possible "electable" opposition to Bush is also a member; Knight Brother of Death John F. Kerry. Now, I'm not even going to get into the fact that they financed Hitler and now own and treasure his silverware, or that they are much more likely the true shadows behind the assasination of JFK, as that could stir polemics.

Here is my suggestion for a POD. When the order was established in 1832, there was alot of resistance at Yale from both the teachers and the students. Their alledged links to Illuminati made them very impopular, and there were several attempts to shut them down, or even make the organization illegal. A precedent had been established 35 years before when President Washington banished any groups associated to Illuminati in the USA.

Suppose it had worked, and this behemoth had never seen the day. Let us suppose, given that, that the vast influence they held was never concentrated with as much ease in a similar structure or organization. Without such a central group deciding to take upon it's shoulders "White man's burden, part Deux", how different would be America today, and in deed the world?

If theres any interest in the matter, I believe I could have ideas for a timeline.

basileus · Feb 9, 2004

Not a good day when you discover to be governed by the Antichrist.

Grey Wolf · Feb 9, 2004

What on Earth ??? Are these freaky extremist Free Masons or something ?

Grey Wolf

David Howery · Feb 9, 2004

uhh... is the whole first post supposed to be AH, or do you actually believe the first paragraph?

wakie · Feb 9, 2004

While it certainly is fun to imagine that there's some little man (or group of men) behind the curtain pulling the strings of history I find it highly unlikely. Skull & Bones has enjoyed so much success because it only accepts children born into prominence. These people have a tremendous network and, as we all know, it isn't what you know it is who you know.

If you disband skull & bones then certainly some of its members probably would not attain the level of success which they did in OTL, but many still would.

Valamyr · Feb 9, 2004

David Howery said:
uhh... is the whole first post supposed to be AH, or do you actually believe the first paragraph?

The first paragraph is sadly facts. Use google to find more information if you wish. Avoid the melodramatic world-conspiracy pages and read only the information coming from reliable sources, and already youll already see that what I wrote is true.

Their membership list, once a well kept secret, was busted open several years ago, and members no longer deny their membership. The other facts I've mentioned are sadly not in the speculation category, otherwise the list would have been much longer. All you read there, is, quite sadly, true.

I admit that aside from wondering what kind of AH scenario it might lead to, I also had an hidden agenda when i posted it, to know how many people are aware of this and what would be the reaction of the others. I started reading and gathering information about them after reading Bush's comments about it. (He avoided the topic... "It's so secret that if i told you, I'd had to kill you *chuckle*" or something of the sort)

Maybe theres no reason to be that alarmed; theres a strong concentration of power in the hands of this organization, but after it, it might just be what it claims to be; a fraternity in which all the members support each other to achieve great things which no specific goal. But I tend to not believe in coincidences of this scale.

Oh, and Grey Wolf, their origins are not clearly traced. Some do think they come from Free Mason groups, others from the Illuminati, or that they simply come from similar groups that existed in Germany at the time. They certainly use the same rituals than those they practiced at the time. OR they could be a purely american phenomeon.

Though that it might be true that the influence of their members is purely coincidential... I find it hard to swallow that this particular group succeeded much better than all other similar organizations worldwide. I dont think they are "pulling the strings of history", but I think the topic is worth reading a little bit about.

Norman · Feb 9, 2004

There are a number of secret societies at Yale, this one (skull and bones) being amoung the most extreme.

I recently heard and interview with a woman who had attended Yale and written a book about the different societies. What she revealed was actually a little ~ well odd is the only way that it can be phrased.

The society in question was founded by a student who had spent some time in Germany in the 1830's, and it was modeled after the German University Secret Socities (Do any still exist?).

According to the writer, there are very strange rituals and semi-sexual rites that take place.

All in all, this is a very strange group.

MerryPrankster · Feb 9, 2004

" President Washington banished any groups associated to Illuminati in the USA."

He did? Could he do that under the Constitution?

Grey Wolf · Feb 9, 2004

Norman said:
There are a number of secret societies at Yale, this one (skull and bones) being amoung the most extreme.

I recently heard and interview with a woman who had attended Yale and written a book about the different societies. What she revealed was actually a little ~ well odd is the only way that it can be phrased.

The society in question was founded by a student who had spent some time in Germany in the 1830's, and it was modeled after the German University Secret Socities (Do any still exist?).

According to the writer, there are very strange rituals and semi-sexual rites that take place.

All in all, this is a very strange group.

So George Bush indulged in semi-sexual rites with other men ? Funny how the people who profess the most intolerance are often doing the same kind of things behind everyone's back

Grey Wolf

Valamyr · Feb 9, 2004

Matt Quinn said:
" President Washington banished any groups associated to Illuminati in the USA."

He did? Could he do that under the Constitution?

Dont quote me here, as I'm not an american and could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the US constitution forbids in itself groups who's stated aim is to overthrow by non-constitutional means the legally elected government, so that would certainly be grounds. I've read that Washington did that in a CBS article which benefits from a minimum of credibility while quoting historical events, I can probably find the link if needed.

Anyhow, there's little proof that S&B has truly anything to do with Illuminati.

And Grey, yes, there are some strange rites, not all of which are public knowledge, that goes on there, but it's not "sexual" as in frolicking with each other its a little different..

Edit: Replaced my vague explanation with the following cut and paste.

The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices. "The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89) Sexual perversion is part of ritual psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..." (Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86). Further, [initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85).

They also ritually slice their throat open (Well only a little, but enough for a bit of blood) at the end of the the initiation ceremony in which they become "Bonesmen". After that they are "dead" and thus, "Knight Brothers of Death".

Grey Wolf · Feb 9, 2004

Valamyr said:
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices. "The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89) Sexual perversion is part of ritual psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..." (Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86). Further, [initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85).

They also ritually slice their throat open (Well only a little, but enough for a bit of blood) at the end of the the initiation ceremony in which they become "Bonesmen". After that they are "dead" and thus, "Knight Brothers of Death".

Heck, sound like a right bunch of nutjobs, kind of explains a few things...

Grey Wolf

David S Poepoe · Feb 9, 2004

I don't think George Washington did anything about banishing "any groups associated to Illuminati in the USA." First, he was a Mason himself and in the early days of the Republic there was a brief anti-Mason movement until Washington intervened on behalf of Freemasonary. Second, he could banish any group. Third, the Illuminati - if you believe what was written - wasn't all that powerful in its own right and did last very long as an organization.

The 'secret societies', such as Freemasonary, have always been questioned by mainstream society. There was a movie not to long ago based upon this organization, which ended up being your typical powerful secret society movie.

Norman · Feb 9, 2004

All in all, I'd rather do Alternate history! We may not have the secret handshakes (or do we, maybe Grey wolf and Ian are holding something back from the rest of us), but I'd rather discuss the rise and fall of mithraism than to lie naked in a cold coffin. Seems to be I'll get there soon enough.

carlton_bach · Feb 9, 2004

Norman said:
The society in question was founded by a student who had spent some time in Germany in the 1830's, and it was modeled after the German University Secret Socities (Do any still exist?).

Hardly secret, but - yes. Very much so. The groups in question differ in their political slant, their secretiveness, exclusiveness, and influence, but they're still around. Usually referred to as 'Burschenschaften' or 'Verbindungen'.

Entry is usually by application (many have recruitment problems and encourage intake), occasionally by invitation. Some still practice ritual duelling with sabers, most practice ritual drinking games, and all have some sort of elaborate and pointless rites that must not be revealed to outsiders (except TV crews, if any are interested). Most are men-only clubs, allowing women, if at all, only in subordinate ranks. Most have internal hierarchies that strongly encourage conformism. obedience, and occasionally humiliation. Many such groups wear 'colours' and some form of dsistinctive badges, occasionally in public (you see more of it these days). Many have clear political messages ranging from moderately conservative to rabidly ultranationalist. A few, interestingly, profess libertarian views. THe main function appears to be a kind of mutual support network in which alumni support the group's students dorms, cramming classes, and parties, and gets graduates from the circle jobs and preferment, in return for which they have a network of friends and grateful protegés to fall back on themselves, and get VIP treatment at the meetings of the societies. Plus, stories to tell of how back in '64, XYZ puked all over his uniform after his first duel...

Weird.

Norman · Feb 9, 2004

Govt by secret society

Could a semi representative govt by secret societies be established somehow?

wakie · Feb 10, 2004

Translation ... "secret societies" sound like the Yale equivalent of fraternities at other schools.

aktarian · Feb 10, 2004

Norman said:
All in all, I'd rather do Alternate history! We may not have the secret handshakes (or do we, maybe Grey wolf and Ian are holding something back from the rest of us)

To all non-initiated readers, of course we don't. To others