Skoda panther ( t 25) introduced 1942

trajen777

Banned
So what if ....
1. Skoda panther ( t25 )into 1942, with licenses to Italy and the other axis partners.
2. Higher firepower than pz 4, plus much cheaper to produce

Info : info from avalanche press:



Learning of the request, Skoda’s managers decided to enter as well. The Skoda team drafted their T-25 (the designation followed Skoda’s sequence of experimental tanks) as an enlargement of the LT38, with some features of subsequent tank designs. Its chassis was an enlarged version of the LT38, and though it had huge road wheels resembling those of the T-34’s Christie suspension it actually had a conventional track design. The upper body and turret were modeled closely on those of the T-34 – the same solution hit on by Daimler-Benz.

The Daimler-Benz design ultimately failed because of the great weight of the very long-barreled 75mm L/70 main gun the Weapons Office required for the new tank. Skoda’s team solved that problem by ignoring the requirement and substituting a new-model 75mm gun of their own design. The 75mm A18 L/55 gun was fully automatic with a drum feed, capable of 15 shots per minute. To compensate for the wear of such rapid fire, a special compressed-air device would clean the barrel after every few shots.

The A18’s armor penetration was much less than that of the L/70 mounted in the German designs, piercing 98mm of armor at 100 meters as compared to 138 by the bigger gun. By comparison, the L/43 gun mounted in the new PanzerKampfwagen IV F2 could pierce 99mm at 100 meters’ distance. While the A18 was inferior to the L/70 in penetration, it could fire so much faster than the German weapon that a target could be overwhelmed by sheer volume of fire. And its much lower weight allowed the tank’s turret to be placed forward like the T-34’s, allowing for a much smaller vehicle than the German designs. Finally, the lower weight of the cannon allowed for a hydraulic traverse to be fitted to the turret; the German designs were hand-cranked. In combat Allied tank crews soon learned that if the Panther’s barrel were pointed downhill, even Arnold Schwarzenegger’s grandfather could not crank the turret around to face up the slope.

The tank would be powered by a new 450-horsepower engine, vertically mounted to save space. At just 20 tons, the tank promised good off-road mobility and had reasonable armor protection. On paper, at least, Skoda produced a very capable vehicle.

It was not, however, a vehicle that met the requirements laid down by the Weapons Bureau – which had not even invited Skoda to participate (entering the competition at all was thus a cardinal sin a bureaucratic empire like Nazi Germany). The tank did not carry the specified L/70 gun, and it was much smaller than the requested design. Apparently the Skoda papers were never even presented to Hitler, and rejected out of hand. Skoda was ordered to cease work on the project and concentrate on the new Marder III tank destroyer project.

Had the Weapons Bureau allowed Skoda to proceed despite the Army's rejection, production probably would have begun in the summer of 1942, when the LT38 ceased production and was replaced by the Marder III, which was built on the LT38’s chassis. The T25 had been designed to rapidly replace the LT38 on the assembly lines at Skoda and CKD, and probably could have been introduced in the fall of 1942.
 
I see this vehicle having almost as many bugs as the Panther for some reason. It was a radical leap forward, expect issues...
 
Automatic loading might be too advanced for 1942 it took the Soviets till the late 60s for their autoloaders to work reliably
US got autoloader to work with the M3 75mm, by which time it was useable in 1943, the more powerful 76mm M1 wanted instead. So the T22E1 went nowhere.
 
I mean it was a paper project so there is no way to tell whether it would be any good as they didn't even build anything resembling a prototype. Earliest remotely possible introduction date would have been late 43.
 

trajen777

Banned
I guess when the numbers really got there it would have a huge impact at the Kursk tank battles.

Yep i think the availability of this in 42 with Tiger in 42 would have helped alot. You would have had a fast nimble tank with good mileage and the Tiger for long range pick off action with the 88. IN 43 add the Panther and you have a good set of tanks.
 

trajen777

Banned
I see this vehicle having almost as many bugs as the Panther for some reason. It was a radical leap forward, expect issues...

Yes some however it was on LT38 chassis so this would help. I think the auto loader and the new engine would have had some bugs. However considering the low weight and proven chassis this might have been minimized.
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trajen777

Banned
I mean it was a paper project so there is no way to tell whether it would be any good as they didn't even build anything resembling a prototype. Earliest remotely possible introduction date would have been late 43.

Actually 42 was a realistic target from the reading -- the transition from the LT38 frame made this a bit simple (same line for 70 % of tank).
 

trajen777

Banned
So Skoda production was 6700 fighting units -- the plan was to replace the Marder tank (1500 units) -- and other -- so if you take the
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/czech/ww2_Czech_Tanks.php
Under German control: 6700+
The first model from the Czech Army adopted as it was by the Wehrmacht was the Panzerkampfwagen 35(t). 244 of this model were captured and participated (after modifications) in the Polish, French and Balkans campaign and operation Barbarossa, as a light tank. But the model was completely obsolete by 1942. The Panzer 38(t) was the first model built in large quantities under German control, giving birth to an incredible basis for at least ten models and variants. After the Marder III tank hunter for example, the best known of these derivatives was the Jagdpanzer 38(t), better and incorrectly known as the “Hetzer”, one of the best tank hunters of WW2.

– 1,414 Panzer 38(t) light tanks, from the Ausf.A to M (1939-42) - lets assume 700 in 42
– 1,500 Marder III tank hunters (1942-43) --- lets say 700 in 42
– 2,827 Jagdpanzer 38(t) tank hunters (1943-45) -- all of these could have been this tank

So in 42 -- lets assume 1000- 1400 T25's --
IN 43 - you have 1500 or so
Now if licences to allies you have a much better performing tank force in 42 - 45 --- Stalingrad would Romanians have had a better chance ?
 
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