Skoda in an Independent Czech Republic Post-WWII

Liberating the country? Mostly except for when they seized carpathian ruthenia and never gave it back which did affect their popularity with the government

Granted, to some extent. That the Communists were still a leading political group despite this is telling.

The general Czechs hated germans after the German occupation and oppression, but the majority or a very large minority at least was not totalitarian and supported democracy

I'm not entirely sure this can be said to be the case. If you've reached a point where it's acceptable to drive a fifth of your population out of your country because their ethnicity makes them suspect, what will you be willing to do to the remaining four-fifths of the country's population? What will you be ready to justify as being in the common good? For that matter, what will politicians be willing to do to so long as they can justify their actions in terms of the common good? I'm reminded somewhat of Serbia during the Yugoslav wars: yes, Serbia proper was much quieter than Bosnia or Kosovo, but the Serbia that was being run by the cabal promoting fighting was hardly run in a way compatible with democracy or civil rights or the future of the country.

I'm not going to say that the success of the Communist coup in Czechoslovakia was overdetermined. I do think that there had been active in the previous few years very strong currents in Czechoslovak political life that made a totalitarian coup relatively likely.

a strong tradition in Czechoslovakia which was one of the few central European countries to avoid authoritarianism or totalitarianism in the interwar years.

The problem is that Czechoslovakia fell apart entirely when it was stressed, the Sudeten Germans joining Germany and the Slovaks opting for independence and neighbours like Hungary annexing territories to which they laid claim. Czechoslovakia did as well as it could, but it ultimately failed.

The assassination of Jan Masaryk tipped the scales from democracy to Communism. As well as this, the expulsion of the germans was due to WW2 and did not mean Czechs hated the Americans or British in the same way. They might've disliked the government, but they didn't hate the west or their citizens nor did they resent the west too much, they resented them slightly but mostly the pre-war governments who for the most time were no longer in power.

Would they have been willing to accept British and French guarantees as to their security in NATO? Would they have been at all willing to work with West Germany?

I see that it wouldn't be as neutral but neither not fully western and otherwise indeed, I think it'd be a capitalist democracy style after France, but neutral especially with the USSR threat though I think in 2 or so decades, they'd stop blaming the west

I do not know. What, exactly, will the relationship of this country be with western Europe, with the West Germany that was the destination of the expelled Sudeten Germans in particular? A democratic Czechoslovakia that is hostile towards both of its western German-speaking neighbours is going to find it difficult to build productive relationships with these and with the western Europe lying beyond them. How will the Benes Decrees, for instance, be handled or otherwise if both West Germany and Czechoslovakia are outside of the Soviet bloc? Meanwhile, there will always be the possibility of productive ties with the Soviet bloc to the north and east (and south?) of Czechoslovakia. There may well be strong impulses for Czechoslovakia to aim for neutrality, to stay independent of a Western bloc with countries it does not trust and a Soviet bloc that while useful wants too much political control.
 
The problem is that Czechoslovakia fell apart entirely when it was stressed, the Sudeten Germans joining Germany and the Slovaks opting for independence and neighbours like Hungary annexing territories to which they laid claim. Czechoslovakia did as well as it could, but it ultimately failed.
Yes when stressed it failed. As failed Poland when stressed or... Belgium, Netherland or France.
Back to Slovaks. In September 1938 Slovaks were behind Prague and even Hlinka's Slovak People Party supported defense. Did they wanted more political powers for Slovaks? Sure.
Slovaks mobilized without problems! Benes decided not to fight. Made few mistake in his foreign policies before, was not able to push French into war even if he ad chance in September 1938.
French recomended mobilization and Czechoslovakia mobilized in September 23rd. In night from 22nd to 23rd SdFK together with members of SA and SS attacked area of Aš bulge incuding town Aš. Benes should use it to state that because German regular troops are attacking Czechoslovak territory without declaration of war, state of war exists between Czechoslovakia and Nazi Germany!
After Benes accepted Munich and resigned, Prague was not willing to fight for Slovak territory - even clearly with Slovak majority and handed it over to Hungary and Poland. Not surprise Slovak declaration of independence came in March 1939, followed by short war with Hungary where Slovakia without army was willing to defend itself and indeed did so.
 
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I'm not entirely sure this can be said to be the case. If you've reached a point where it's acceptable to drive a fifth of your population out of your country because their ethnicity makes them suspect, what will you be willing to do to the remaining four-fifths of the country's population? What will you be ready to justify as being in the common good? For that matter, what will politicians be willing to do to so long as they can justify their actions in terms of the common good? I'm reminded somewhat of Serbia during the Yugoslav wars: yes, Serbia proper was much quieter than Bosnia or Kosovo, but the Serbia that was being run by the cabal promoting fighting was hardly run in a way compatible with democracy or civil rights or the future of the country.

The thing is that most citizens did support the eradication of germans, but I am pretty sure Czechs or Slovaks wouldn't support the eradication of themselves. The difference is that the people resented the German occupation and wanted revenge, but they didn't want revenge so much on others as it was Germans which oppressed Czechs, not Slovaks, not any other nationality, but German troops. The context is very important in that, so I really don't think there would've been any political will to eradicate any other nationality
 
So ITTL Skoda can maybe avoid to by buyed by VW or maybe siding with Renault?

It is very possible Skoda remains independent in this ATL, Volkswagen meanwhile would instead have acquired and rehabilitated the Wartburg (or Trabant) marque to become the the Volkswagen Group's Budget brand since the Wartburg (and Trabant) did later use Volkswagen engines in OTL.

One question that comes to mind with this ATL Skoda is how they would go about moving upmarket with new 6/8-cylinder versions of the pre-war Skoda Superb and post-war Skoda VOS, not sure whether the larger planned OHC/DOHC engines were capable of spawning inline-6 and V8 engines so it is possible Skoda would develop a new clean sheet engine design for their larger models.

There will be some suggesting Skoda should merge with Tatra given they appear to both compliment each other (despite pre-war / post-war Tatra still looking to expand downmarket) or swallowed up by a large foreign carmaker yet those scenarios are too easy and frankly unoriginal compared to having both marques grow into the Czech analogues of France's Peugeot vs Renault, Germany's BMW vs Mercedes and until recently Sweden's Volvo vs Saab in terms of domestic rivalry.

Speaking of Tatra, it would be interesting to see how events differ from OTL when the company launches a lawsuit against Volkswagen for damages after WW2. OTL Volkswagen in 1965 paid Tatra 1,000,000 Deutsche Marks in an out of court settlement, with an ATL Tatra potentially looking to further financially punish Volkswagen and the Porsche family.
 
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Yes when stressed it failed. As failed Poland when stressed or... Belgium, Netherland or France.

As far as I'm aware, France did not immediately collapse into its ethnic components, leaders in regions like Brittany and Provence and Gascony taking the opportunity to separate their regions from a French state that they were never particularly interested in. That didn't happen in Poland, either: I don't think the partition of the east of the Second Republic counts. That nearly happened in Belgium, but that on account of the sharp ethnolinguistic lines dividing the country, perhaps proving my point.

The idea of a Czechoslovakia that was a central European Switzerland was a beautiful one. The world would have been much better off if it could have survived. That said, the different populations went into the state with different conceptions and different degrees of willingness.

The thing is that most citizens did support the eradication of germans, but I am pretty sure Czechs or Slovaks wouldn't support the eradication of themselves.

Exactly. Were they willing to support, for instance, the suspension of parliamentary democracy? Were they willing to accept a dominant state role in the economy? Were they willing to accept an alliance with the Soviet Union?

Once you are willing to contemplate the physical removal of so many people from your country as an acceptable solution, what are you not willing to accept? What lesser indignities will people be willing to accept?

The difference is that the people resented the German occupation and wanted revenge, but they didn't want revenge so much on others as it was Germans which oppressed Czechs, not Slovaks, not any other nationality, but German troops. The context is very important in that, so I really don't think there would've been any political will to eradicate any other nationality

There was interest in deporting the Hungarians, too, but that never materialized for power-political reasons.

Going back to the original POD, whether we're talking about an independent Czechia or an independent Czechoslovakia, I think the resulting state would be reluctant to cooperate closely with the West. There may be a very strong emphasis on domestic industry, including domestic military and automotive industry. Possibly it might try to benefit from its position on the fringes of two blocs to market its wares to both? This could actually be pretty lucrative.
 
As far as I'm aware, France did not immediately collapse into its ethnic components, leaders in regions like Brittany and Provence and Gascony taking the opportunity to separate their regions from a French state that they were never particularly interested in. That didn't happen in Poland, either: I don't think the partition of the east of the Second Republic counts. That nearly happened in Belgium, but that on account of the sharp ethnolinguistic lines dividing the country, perhaps proving my point.

The idea of a Czechoslovakia that was a central European Switzerland was a beautiful one. The world would have been much better off if it could have survived. That said, the different populations went into the state with different conceptions and different degrees of willingness.



Exactly. Were they willing to support, for instance, the suspension of parliamentary democracy? Were they willing to accept a dominant state role in the economy? Were they willing to accept an alliance with the Soviet Union?

Once you are willing to contemplate the physical removal of so many people from your country as an acceptable solution, what are you not willing to accept? What lesser indignities will people be willing to accept?
The suspension of parliamentary democracy? Just because you contemplate the physical removal of people doesn't mean you contemplate rest. Most Czechs probably hated germans after WW2, but few hated the parliamentary democracy. Even with all the benefits, the Communist party had to assassinate the leading democrat, Jan Masaryk to prevent a blocking of their legislative coup, since Jan Masaryk was probably the most loved politician, partly due to his policies and partly due to his father, Tomas Garrigue Masaryk and had he opposed the communist coup with the rest of the democratic politicians who resigned wanting to force new elections, but the communists prevented it as their support appeared to be slowly decreasing after the war, the coup might've been blocked and new elections held. And in the beginning, the people saw an alliance with the USSR, not as an indignity but as a continuation of pre-war as the USSR was one of the czechlsovak alliances pre-war and the only one not resented over the Munich agreement.


There was interest in deporting the Hungarians, too, but that never materialized for power-political reasons.
Hungary did also fight in the Axis, same like Germany hence also revenge although Germany was more despised than Hungary, part of the reason for the failure of it's materializaiton
 
Speaking of Tatra, it would be interesting to see how events differ from OTL when the company launches a lawsuit against Volkswagen for damages after WW2. OTL Volkswagen in 1965 paid Tatra 1,000,000 Deutsche Marks in an out of court settlement, with an ATL Tatra potentially looking to further financially punish Volkswagen and the Porsche family.

Or Wolfsburg is turned over for reparations to Czechoslovakia since the British or US didn't want it right after the War, and no more VW. Germans work at the Tatrawerke, and since its a good basic design, Beetle exists for a few years till a new, all Tatra design is made utilizing some of the VW components
 
As far as I'm aware, France did not immediately collapse into its ethnic components, leaders in regions like Brittany and Provence and Gascony taking the opportunity to separate their regions from a French state that they were never particularly interested in. That didn't happen in Poland, either: I don't think the partition of the east of the Second Republic counts. That nearly happened in Belgium, but that on account of the sharp ethnolinguistic lines dividing the country, perhaps proving my point.

The idea of a Czechoslovakia that was a central European Switzerland was a beautiful one. The world would have been much better off if it could have survived. That said, the different populations went into the state with different conceptions and different degrees of willingness.
France, Poland, Belgium fell due to outside pressure. It was at least regarding to Czech and Slovak relations in September 1938 true for Czechoslovakia too. As I said Slovaks mobilized without problems, there was not mass disobedience during mobilization from Slovak side. However Czechoslovak ally was not willing to defend its smaller partner.
But indeed I will agree with you that idea of Czechoslovakia as central European Switzerland was beautiful, unfortunately from its starts many ideas were thrown overboard but could be restored.
1991/1992 situation was different. There were not real problems between Czech and Slovak populations and separation was due to unwillingness of political parties. Whatever is said Klaus and Meciar despite both winning elections didn't had mandate to divide the country. If both of them were running saying they will divide Federation they wouldn't won! Unfortunately due to years of political apathy learn during communism in 1991 society was not ready to stand against it!
 
Or Wolfsburg is turned over for reparations to Czechoslovakia since the British or US didn't want it right after the War, and no more VW. Germans work at the Tatrawerke, and since its a good basic design, Beetle exists for a few years till a new, all Tatra design is made utilizing some of the VW components
Tatra didn't need to utilize VW componets. Had enough of their own interesting designs - Tatraplan for example. German Ledwinka was design leader in Tatra but had Czech engineers working for himself. He was jailed for colaboration after war and released only after 5 years. However his Czech engineers were visiting him in jail for some advice on design of Tatraplan. I guess if communist didn't get in power he could get out much sooner and actually even back to Tatra. His workers were majority Czechs (80%)
He was arrested after war but in process he was in 1947 declared not guilty! It was proved he protected his Czech workers which came under interest of Gestapo. Unfortunately in March 1948, after communists came to power deliberation which proved him not to be guilty was cancelled.
 
Hungary did also fight in the Axis, same like Germany hence also revenge although Germany was more despised than Hungary, part of the reason for the failure of it's materializaiton
Ideed there was floating idea Hungarians will be deported same way but it didn't materialize. Instead population exchange was negotiated. Slovaks from Hungary and Hungarians for Slovakia. App. 80000 people on both sides.
 
Tatra didn't need to utilize VW componets. Had enough of their own interesting designs - Tatraplan for example. German Ledwinka was design leader in Tatra but had Czech engineers working for himself. He was jailed for colaboration after war and released only after 5 years. However his Czech engineers were visiting him in jail for some advice on design of Tatraplan. I guess if communist didn't get in power he could get out much sooner and actually even back to Tatra. His workers were majority Czechs (80%)
He was arrested after war but in process he was in 1947 declared not guilty! It was proved he protected his Czech workers which came under interest of Gestapo. Unfortunately in March 1948, after communists came to power deliberation which proved him not to be guilty was cancelled.

Another way Tatra could get revenge on Volkswagen and Porsche would be to outdo both in the same way Lamborghini sought to outdo Ferrari, entailing a Flat-Twin challenger to the Beetle and Type 2 to a Flat-4/V8-engined rival to the Porsche 356/911, with Tatra being in a better financial position to outdo Volkswagen by producing earlier versions of the Type 3 and Type 4.
 
I see Skoda and Tatra excelling more in commercial vehicles than sports cars. Czechoslovakia built some excellent trucks during the Cold War. An independent/neutral Czechslovakia would no doubt be a powerhouse in the trucks and buses market, as they were pre-war. If we look at Sweden, Scania and Volvo are a bigger player in commerical trucks than cars.

In the military field I would expect them to design their own tanks much as the Swedes and Swiss did.
 
I see Skoda and Tatra excelling more in commercial vehicles than sports cars. Czechoslovakia built some excellent trucks during the Cold War. An independent/neutral Czechslovakia would no doubt be a powerhouse in the trucks and buses market, as they were pre-war. If we look at Sweden, Scania and Volvo are a bigger player in commerical trucks than cars.

In the military field I would expect them to design their own tanks much as the Swedes and Swiss did.

Commercials vehicles is one part, though it did not stop Volvo from producing the P1800 (not to mention other prototypes) or Mercedes from producing sportscars / supercars. That is not even mentioning Skoda potentially keeping the rear-engined layout a bit longer and reserving it for Alpine-like sportscar models similar to the OTL rear-engined coupe-bodied Skoda RS rally cars, Skoda 1100 GT, Skoda 110 "Ferat" super sport.

Short of ATL Skoda featuring front-engine RWD cars at the upper end of the range, their earlier embrace of front-engined FWD would likely lead them to develop mid-engined sportcars similar to the Fiat X1/9, Lancia Monte Carlo and Toyota MR2.
 
The suspension of parliamentary democracy? Just because you contemplate the physical removal of people doesn't mean you contemplate rest. Most Czechs probably hated germans after WW2, but few hated the parliamentary democracy. Even with all the benefits, the Communist party had to assassinate the leading democrat, Jan Masaryk to prevent a blocking of their legislative coup, since Jan Masaryk was probably the most loved politician, partly due to his policies and partly due to his father, Tomas Garrigue Masaryk and had he opposed the communist coup with the rest of the democratic politicians who resigned wanting to force new elections, but the communists prevented it as their support appeared to be slowly decreasing after the war, the coup might've been blocked and new elections held. And in the beginning, the people saw an alliance with the USSR, not as an indignity but as a continuation of pre-war as the USSR was one of the czechlsovak alliances pre-war and the only one not resented over the Munich agreement.

Sure. That is how Czechoslovakia was able to slide into the acceptance of the imposition of a police state run by local politicians in a firm alliance with the Soviet Union that was one of the only pre-war countries trusted, in a bloc that happened not to include the largest German state as a key member.

Hungary did also fight in the Axis, same like Germany hence also revenge although Germany was more despised than Hungary, part of the reason for the failure of it's materializaiton

It seems to me that in Slovakia, with both Slovakia and Hungary being in the Axis, no one population was in a position of superiority.
 
It is possible that with the absence of Tatra and Skoda, the Soviet Comecon decide to make East Germany's Horch / Sachsenring the Eastern Bloc's luxury carmaker from the Horch P240 / Sachsenring P240 onwards. - https://oppositelock.kinja.com/zwickau-home-of-the-trabant-and-1796635512

On top of that, an even craftier idea would be for Eisenacher Motorenwerk aka EMW to be revived and go back to building copies of BMWs (such as the 02, New Class and New Six) with engines sourced from Moskvitch's own alleged copy of the BMW M10 engine that began appearing in the Moskvitch 412. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskvitch_412

Especially given the OTL BMW M10's own potential to spawn the M20/M30 inline-6 as well as prototype V8 and V12 engines, not sure where the revival of EMW would have left Wartburg though however perhaps it could sit below the revived EMW marque beneath the latter's copy of the BMW 02.
 
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