Skandinaviendeutsche? (Germans in Scandinavia)

Seen this map before?
OpoAJiJ.png

Ok, Maybe not this one specifically, but it still should tell you about what went down OTL

Drang Nach Osten & Ostsiedlung, I.E German settlement east.
I'm not gonna bore you with the explanation of why this happened (mostly because I know too little to add much). But as you can see, there are no Germans that settled or entered Scandinavia, well... there were Germans there, but never in the long run (Schleswig Germans aren't counted).

So, what POD(s) are required to make it so that the Scandinavian countries of Sweden, Denmark and/or Norway gain a German minority?

Scandinavia has always been underpopulated, which is why none of the Scandinavian countries successfully were long-term great powers, simply due to lack of manpower. This question is about if Scandinavians managed to get Germans to settle there. Essentially "growing" the underpopulated region withGerman settlers.

So how plausible is it?
 
The Danish-German linguistic border was around 100 kilometer further south.

Beside that Amager (and the rural areas west of Copenhagen) had a German speaking minority until mid 19th century (Dutch immigrants who had shifted to low German), North Jutland had German enclaves until around the same time (from Palatinate), Copenhagen was 1/4 German speaking the 1870ties. Even today around 6-7% of the Danish Schleswig are Germans. German names are also massive overrepresented among the Danish elite.

In Sweden the Östergotland coast was settled by Saxons in the High Medieval period. These had assimilated a few centuries later. Much of the Swedish nobility and burghers in Finland descend from Germans immigrants.
 
So what potential do we have for increased German settlement, I think the Danish state settling Hessian on the Jutish Heath has potential. Denmark and Hesse-Cassel was closely allied in the late 18th century, because of some weird family drama, a few accidental deaths and they're in Union even in OTL, the Hessian was seen as potential heir when the Oldenburgs dies out. Hesse was one of the main supplier of German colonists to Russia and British America in the 18th century, so they have the surplus population. So let's say we see a personal union, and the new king open the Jutish Heath up to Hessian settlers. This means these areas comes under plough a century earlier than in OTL, next we could also see Norway and Iceland get some settlers if the heath colonization goes well. The same crops which do well on the heath would do well in the more fertile areas of both these countries.
 
The Danish-German linguistic border was around 100 kilometer further south.

Beside that Amager (and the rural areas west of Copenhagen) had a German speaking minority until mid 19th century (Dutch immigrants who had shifted to low German), North Jutland had German enclaves until around the same time (from Palatinate), Copenhagen was 1/4 German speaking the 1870ties. Even today around 6-7% of the Danish Schleswig are Germans. German names are also massive overrepresented among the Danish elite.

In Sweden the Östergotland coast was settled by Saxons in the High Medieval period. These had assimilated a few centuries later. Much of the Swedish nobility and burghers in Finland descend from Germans immigrants.
There is a similar trend in Norway, with german settlers and their descendants being overrepresented among the elite. There was a study that discovered that people in the lawyer occupation descend overproportionally from the Hansa German settlers compared to the rest of the population.
 
There is a similar trend in Norway, with german settlers and their descendants being overrepresented among the elite. There was a study that discovered that people in the lawyer occupation descend overproportionally from the Hansa German settlers compared to the rest of the population.

Doesn't that make some sense though? Settlers tend to be invited to fill certain positions, especially in developed destination countries, they basically invite people with a certain knowledge and education. You attract settlers by giving them the prospect of a better position, than they have at home, especially in developed destination countries.
 
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In Eastern Europe Germans avoided assimilation mostly due to religious barrier (being Protestants among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christiana) or being aristocratic elite among Latvian and Estonian peasants, Catholic Germans assimilated easily among Poles OTOH (for example Bambers/Bambrzy-descendants of Catholic Franconian settlers (named after town of Bamberg) settled in Greater Poland (later Posen Province) in 18th century, were Polonized when Posen was under Prussian rule.
So you need predominately Catholic (but not zealot) Scandinavia, with German Lutheran immigrant population in coastal cities.
 
In Eastern Europe Germans avoided assimilation mostly due to religious barrier (being Protestants among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christiana) or being aristocratic elite among Latvian and Estonian peasants, Catholic Germans assimilated easily among Poles OTOH (for example Bambers/Bambrzy-descendants of Catholic Franconian settlers (named after town of Bamberg) settled in Greater Poland (later Posen Province) in 18th century, were Polonized when Posen was under Prussian rule.
So you need predominately Catholic (but not zealot) Scandinavia, with German Lutheran immigrant population in coastal cities.

While religious difference helped it wasn't that clear, there was plenty of Catholic Germans living among Catholics East Europeans and Protestant Germans living among Protestant East Europeans. The difference was more a question of social class, the Germans was free peasants, burghers and noblemen, rarely serfs or tenants.

The truth was that Schleswig until 1850 pretty much look liked Royal Prussia or Posen, a mostly non-German rural population and a German urban population. And in Schleswig there was no religious difference (except for a few Reformed and Old Catholic/Jansenist settlements along the Wadden Sea).
 
While religious difference helped it wasn't that clear, there was plenty of Catholic Germans living among Catholics East Europeans and Protestant Germans living among Protestant East Europeans. The difference was more a question of social class, the Germans was free peasants, burghers and noblemen, rarely serfs or tenants.

The truth was that Schleswig until 1850 pretty much look liked Royal Prussia or Posen, a mostly non-German rural population and a German urban population. And in Schleswig there was no religious difference (except for a few Reformed and Old Catholic/Jansenist settlements along the Wadden Sea).
This, either separate denomination or social class. But situation where Swedes or Norvegians (with Danes it looks a bit more likely due to proximity to German corelands) are reduced to peasants ruled by German aristocracy is not very plausible.
 
While religious difference helped it wasn't that clear, there was plenty of Catholic Germans living among Catholics East Europeans and Protestant Germans living among Protestant East Europeans. The difference was more a question of social class, the Germans was free peasants, burghers and noblemen, rarely serfs or tenants.

The truth was that Schleswig until 1850 pretty much look liked Royal Prussia or Posen, a mostly non-German rural population and a German urban population. And in Schleswig there was no religious difference (except for a few Reformed and Old Catholic/Jansenist settlements along the Wadden Sea).
Not fully exact, Southern rural Schleswig was already German by 1840 or so:
Folkesprogene_i_Hertugd%C3%B8mmet_Slesvig.png
 
Doesn't that make something sense though? Settlers tend to be invited to fill certain position, especially in developed destination countries, they basically invite people with a certain knowledge and education. You attract settlers by giving them the prospect of a better position, than they have at home, especially in developed destination countries.
Yes the german immigrants to Norway tended to be more skilled than the natives.
 
Scandinavia generally lacks fertile farmland (unlike Ukraine or Volga Plain) to attract German farmers, and local market is too small to attract large number of craftsmen, unlike, say, 19th Century Russian Poland, where thousands of Germans settled to work in textile industry. But factories of Łódź supplied vast Russian market, protected by high taffifs.

What about more religiously tolerant Sweden an/or Denmark being safe heaven for various religious dissidents?
 
Than the average population I imagine, not on a general sense that German merchants or lawyers were better than Scandinavian merchants and lawyers?
On average was what i meant. But German Hansa merchants did take over much of the trade in Norway due to them being better organized, better informed and having stronger ties to Europe.
 
Scandinavia generally lacks fertile farmland (unlike Ukraine or Volga Plain) to attract German farmers, and local market is too small to attract large number of craftsmen, unlike, say, 19th Century Russian Poland, where thousands of Germans settled to work in textile industry. But factories of Łódź supplied vast Russian market, protected by high taffifs.

What about more religiously tolerant Sweden an/or Denmark being safe heaven for various religious dissidents?
Most German immigrants to Norway which is a Scandinavian country, migrated to cities, where some german enclaves formed. Bergen was on of the cities in Norway with the largest German population.
 
I believe during the 1848 Revolutions, when Prussia was at war with Denmark over Schleswig and Holstein, there were some German nationalists who argued that Prussia should annex Jutland due to it being historically German (despite the fact that few, if any, of the locals would have regarded themselves as German). In a scenario where Prussia is able to win a decisive victory and the Prussian King is willing to accept a crown from the gutter Jutland could end up in Germany. In order to consolidate their control over the region the German government would probably enforce a program of Germanisation through a mixture of settlement and education. If you really want to wank Germany you could have Norway, where there was some native support for pan-Germanism during that period, join Germany at some point.
 
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