Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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Depending on just how badly the British bled the Germans it could be argued the Heer has been looking at British tactics closely. OTL Germany lost 34% of it's Panzer's destroyed with Britain accounting for around 4-6% of them so around 1 sixth of all panzers destroyed were likely destroyed by the British. ITTL the amount of Panzers destroyed could well be up to 40% with the British accounting for 10% or one quarter of all Panzers destroyed. If that is true then that will have made a big impression.
It also exonerates Rommel somewhat the better the British did overall.
You'd think they'd make their own thread, wouldn't you?
[teasing, but only a little sorry]
But it was interesting how long the ergonomics continued after the 2-pounder. I can't remember the tank (maybe even Sentinel) but after bagging the gunner's chair, one of the commenters pointed out the gunner was meant to be crouched next to the gun, like sighting a huge rifle, rather than sitting during combat.
21 February 1941. El Agheila, Libya
allanpcameron
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21 February 1941. El Agheila, Libya
The Royals, (1st The Royal Dragoons), were in the process of taking over the duties of the 11th Hussars, who were returning to Egypt for a well deserved rest and refit. Although they’d been in Palestine since before the beginning of the war, the Royals were not long changed over from horses to horsepower. The regiment was equipped with Marmon-Herrington armoured cars in A and C Squadrons, while B Squadron had received Rolls-Royce armoured cars. B Squadron was back at Benghazi, while C Squadron ranged forward from El Agheila, past Ras Lanuf towards Nofilia. A Squadron was receiving some extra tuition on desert driving and navigating from the last of A Squadron of 11th Hussars before they left.
All the British forces had been noticing an increased presence of the Luftwaffe. Reports of a number of Stukas and Bf 110s coming down to strafe any vehicles on the move were increasing. No 3 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force, who were based at Benina, near Benghazi, had lost four precious Hurricanes to enemy action, leaving them short-handed. A mobile radar unit had arrived there, and had just become operational. The Australian anti-aircraft gunners around Benghazi had been going through more of the captured Italian equipment and had managed to get four 75mm AA guns operational, providing the harbour at Benghazi with a bit more protection. HMS Terror was also present, her own AA armament being supplemented by more captured Italian 20mm AA guns. A couple of small convoys had come and gone into the port, building up stocks at Benghazi and forward Field Supply Depots at Agedabia (for 22nd Armoured Brigade), and Marsa al Brega (for 16th Infantry Brigade).
Blenheims from No. 55 Squadron R.A.F. reported that they saw much movement in both directions along the coastal road around Sirte. General O’Connor had been getting reports from time to time that German troops were being made ready for service in Africa, but there were very few sources of intelligence, and not enough long-range aircraft to keep watch on the port of Tripoli. The RAF on Malta had raided Tripoli a couple of times and reported an increase in shipping there, which confirmed the suspicions that the Italians were being reinforced, but whether by their German allies, or simply with more of their own units wasn’t clear.
Lieutenant Kenneth Evers, commanding a troop of C Squadron, 1st The Royal Dragoons, had received reports from a Lysander pilot of No. 6 Army Co-operation Squadron that he’d seen an 8-wheeled armoured car which might have been German. The information about German armoured cars had been widely disseminated after the capture of German equipment in Flanders. The chances were that the German machine would be armed with a 20mm cannon, which would make mincemeat of the South African built armoured cars his troop were equipped with. The chances of the Boys rifle taking on a German armoured car would be down more to good luck than good management. Reconnaissance however was always better if done without the alerting the enemy. So, Evers found a suitable hide for himself and a couple of troopers overlooking the road between Nofilia and Sirte. Armed primarily with a pen, paper and a No 9 Wireless set, they began the job of overwatch. If the Germans were coming, then someone would need to know. The rest of the troop were inland, camouflaged and ready to relieve their leader when called upon.
NB There a few changes from OTL. The better AA position at Benghazi is brought forward, as is the operational radar. The increasing Luftwaffe presence and the first reports of German reconnaissance are around this date. A couple of sites seem to suggest that the German/British reconnaissance forces started facing off against one another, with the British coming off worse, about this time. I reckon that will start happening in March rather than February.
The Royals, (1st The Royal Dragoons), were in the process of taking over the duties of the 11th Hussars, who were returning to Egypt for a well deserved rest and refit. Although they’d been in Palestine since before the beginning of the war, the Royals were not long changed over from horses to horsepower. The regiment was equipped with Marmon-Herrington armoured cars in A and C Squadrons, while B Squadron had received Rolls-Royce armoured cars. B Squadron was back at Benghazi, while C Squadron ranged forward from El Agheila, past Ras Lanuf towards Nofilia. A Squadron was receiving some extra tuition on desert driving and navigating from the last of A Squadron of 11th Hussars before they left.
All the British forces had been noticing an increased presence of the Luftwaffe. Reports of a number of Stukas and Bf 110s coming down to strafe any vehicles on the move were increasing. No 3 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force, who were based at Benina, near Benghazi, had lost four precious Hurricanes to enemy action, leaving them short-handed. A mobile radar unit had arrived there, and had just become operational. The Australian anti-aircraft gunners around Benghazi had been going through more of the captured Italian equipment and had managed to get four 75mm AA guns operational, providing the harbour at Benghazi with a bit more protection. HMS Terror was also present, her own AA armament being supplemented by more captured Italian 20mm AA guns. A couple of small convoys had come and gone into the port, building up stocks at Benghazi and forward Field Supply Depots at Agedabia (for 22nd Armoured Brigade), and Marsa al Brega (for 16th Infantry Brigade).
Blenheims from No. 55 Squadron R.A.F. reported that they saw much movement in both directions along the coastal road around Sirte. General O’Connor had been getting reports from time to time that German troops were being made ready for service in Africa, but there were very few sources of intelligence, and not enough long-range aircraft to keep watch on the port of Tripoli. The RAF on Malta had raided Tripoli a couple of times and reported an increase in shipping there, which confirmed the suspicions that the Italians were being reinforced, but whether by their German allies, or simply with more of their own units wasn’t clear.
Lieutenant Kenneth Evers, commanding a troop of C Squadron, 1st The Royal Dragoons, had received reports from a Lysander pilot of No. 6 Army Co-operation Squadron that he’d seen an 8-wheeled armoured car which might have been German. The information about German armoured cars had been widely disseminated after the capture of German equipment in Flanders. The chances were that the German machine would be armed with a 20mm cannon, which would make mincemeat of the South African built armoured cars his troop were equipped with. The chances of the Boys rifle taking on a German armoured car would be down more to good luck than good management. Reconnaissance however was always better if done without the alerting the enemy. So, Evers found a suitable hide for himself and a couple of troopers overlooking the road between Nofilia and Sirte. Armed primarily with a pen, paper and a No 9 Wireless set, they began the job of overwatch. If the Germans were coming, then someone would need to know. The rest of the troop were inland, camouflaged and ready to relieve their leader when called upon.
NB There a few changes from OTL. The better AA position at Benghazi is brought forward, as is the operational radar. The increasing Luftwaffe presence and the first reports of German reconnaissance are around this date. A couple of sites seem to suggest that the German/British reconnaissance forces started facing off against one another, with the British coming off worse, about this time. I reckon that will start happening in March rather than February.
One point on Italian 20mm guns; iirc, the Royal Navy nicked any of these they could find that weren't nailed down... The Army might have to fight for them!
To put on fighting vessels only? Or did they also add to the cargo ships being used in higher risk areas?
If she's in a high risk area, a ship is a fighting ship!
The navy armed everything that could float with weapons
I think that point is made with HMS Terror's AAA being supplemented with them?
allanpcameron
Donor
Sorry guys, but there's about 10 pages of comments, debate and thoughts (on and off topic) between the last update and today's. Thanks for it all, but I'm feeling a wee bit out of sorts, so forgive me if I don't answer all (most, much, any) of it.
Allan
Allan
Sorry to hear your unwell.
To be fair most of its nonsense anyway
I had a relevant post on pg 339 (last post - about flail tanks and their development)?
My fathers tanker , on the Russian run, had 11 guns - one 4", the rest light AA.
She was the most heavily armed ship in the close escort!
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