Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

Status
Not open for further replies.
This all makes me wonder if when the StuGs are encountered, it will prompt the British to make their own to take up the support tank role.
A 25-pdr equipped StuG would make for a decent support tank and SPG in one vehicle.
 
Well, the Stug isn't carrying anything that can't be found on the Pz4, so really the only thing going for it is cost since it doesn't have a turret. I imagine the issue of 'turret or no turret on an infantry support tank' will very quickly end up 'turret'. Unless I'm much mistaken, it's only going to be later (1941?) when the Stugs start getting the HV 75mm and really begin making a name for themselves as TDs. Right now they're essentially a direct-fire SPG for the infantry.

That said, there's nothing stopping Nuffield from proposing a 'biggest gun on the smallest hull' like the Alecto to the War Department and seeing how far it goes.
 
Well, the Stug isn't carrying anything that can't be found on the Pz4, so really the only thing going for it is cost since it doesn't have a turret. I imagine the issue of 'turret or no turret on an infantry support tank' will very quickly end up 'turret'. Unless I'm much mistaken, it's only going to be later (1941?) when the Stugs start getting the HV 75mm and really begin making a name for themselves as TDs. Right now they're essentially a direct-fire SPG for the infantry.

That said, there's nothing stopping Nuffield from proposing a 'biggest gun on the smallest hull' like the Alecto to the War Department and seeing how far it goes.
A Stug is unlikely IMO, but maybe an Archer?
 
Well, the Stug isn't carrying anything that can't be found on the Pz4, so really the only thing going for it is cost since it doesn't have a turret. I imagine the issue of 'turret or no turret on an infantry support tank' will very quickly end up 'turret'. Unless I'm much mistaken, it's only going to be later (1941?) when the Stugs start getting the HV 75mm and really begin making a name for themselves as TDs. Right now they're essentially a direct-fire SPG for the infantry.

That said, there's nothing stopping Nuffield from proposing a 'biggest gun on the smallest hull' like the Alecto to the War Department and seeing how far it goes.
If its got a Liberty engine, it wont go very far :p
 
A Stug is unlikely IMO, but maybe an Archer?
A 25-pdr Archer could easily be used initially as a SPG and then, through force of circumstance, in the field as an anti-tank vehicle. Given that anti-tank rounds for the 25-pdr exist, it wouldn't be unreasonable for each vehicle to carry a few if they were near the front line.
 
A 25-pdr Archer could easily be used initially as a SPG and then, through force of circumstance, in the field as an anti-tank vehicle. Given that anti-tank rounds for the 25-pdr exist, it wouldn't be unreasonable for each vehicle to carry a few if they were near the front line.
You'd first have to sell the RA on the idea, but I don't see any significant issue. Of course, you could also mount the 25-pounder Priest style. I specifically mentioned the Archer because it would be a good way to fit the 75mmHV or 17-pounder on a small chassis without the risk of the barrel digging into the ground.

Well, how else are they going to use up that warehouse of crated engines they got for cheap? Armoured cars? Wait...
Armoured cars would be good. Or if you want to put them in tanks, mount them in pairs, like the Matilda II did. They're only 27 inches wide, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 
Last edited:
A mixed force of 4x4 armoured cars armed with pom-poms, 2-pdrs and multiple machine guns or 20mm cannon would be a useful support for a tank force in the Western Desert. Perhaps an early "Saracen" APC could be built, helping to reduce infantry casualties and get you closer to a proper combined arms force.
 
Hopefully someone at Farnborough will look at the Panzers and get some shots fired at them and their armour samples to discover the face hardened problem.
 
A mixed force of 4x4 armoured cars armed with pom-poms, 2-pdrs and multiple machine guns or 20mm cannon would be a useful support for a tank force in the Western Desert. Perhaps an early "Saracen" APC could be built, helping to reduce infantry casualties and get you closer to a proper combined arms force.
There where wheeled British armoured command vehicles available, AEC and Guy produced them during the war. I’ve often wondered why they didn’t produce more for the infantry! Would have reduced casualties and allowed closer cooperation between infantry and tanks.
 
In the situation that this timeline has established I think the Soviet Union maybe in for a rougher time of things. I would think the German command would not be giving any serious consideration or planning for an invasion of the UK. So no Battle of Britain to further wear down the Luftwaffe after the Battle of France. Possibly a longer but much lower intensity Channel War instead. And you could be sure the Germans would be putting more effort into up armouring and up gunning their tanks faster then OTL.

What this would all mean for an ATL Africa Campaign I can't guess. But the poor Russians are going to get hit even harder then OTL. More planes and better and possibly more tanks coming at them. The British may have to send those new Vickers Victors to Russia in numbers.
 
Last edited:
Ladies, gentlemen and all ships at sea, instead of bringing up the Australian tank that shall not be named every dozen or so pages. Why not discuss something more workable.




The Owens gun, one of those oft forgotten gems of WW2, a very good and simple weapon that could have been produced in Australia and other countries with little in the way of materials needed. And it gives the UK a very good SMG. This saves the UK money instead of getting the hugely expensive tommy gun.
I have been lucky enough when I was in the Australia Army to fire an Owen Gun. It was in the mid-1980s, some 25 years after it had been replaced by the F1 SMG. The Owen Gun was slightly heavier than the F1 and quite accurate, out to 200 metres. I won't tell you where and when because it was illegally held by the establishment where it occurred. The F1 SMG was easier to strip and assemble but the Owen was no great task to do. The only difference between the two which was remarkable was that you removed the Barrel to gain access to the inner working parts, whereas in the F1, you removed the butt. The Owen was much more tolerant to sand and mud than the Sten or the Stirling or the F1 SMG. During WWII tests were undertaken where a gun was immersed in mud, burnt and it still functioned perfectly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top