9 May 1939. London, England.
allanpcameron
Donor
9 May 1939. London, England.
With Giffard Martel having been promoted and given command of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division, he had been replaced by Brigadier John Crawford, who had been one of Martel’s Assistant Deputy Directors of Mechanisation.
Crawford joined the meeting in the office of the Director of Mechanisation, Major-General Alexander Davidson. The meeting was to discuss future orders for cruiser tanks. The requirement for cruisers had risen substantially to 1285. 262 were requested for the rapidly expanding Territorial Army to supplement the forty-two they had been promised for training. Since the Mobile Division was to be replaced with two Armoured Divisions, their requirement meant there was a need for many more cruiser tanks.
Using the distinction between the light and heavy cruisers continued to cause problems, as only Vickers’ A10 could be considered in the heavy category, and there were some at the meeting who were unhappy with Vickers decision not to change the design to take a hull mounted machine gun. Each Division would have a Light and a Heavy Brigade, so 435 Heavies were needed, but orders had only been given for 160 A10 (Cruiser Mark II). There had been orders for 420 light cruisers made out of the requirement for 852. The orders made so far were for 125 A9 (Cruiser Mark I), 65 A13 (Cruiser Mark III), 130 A13 Mark II (Cruiser Mark IV) and 100 for the paper design of the A13 Mark III (Cruiser Mark V Covenanter*) ‘from the drawing board’. That left the need for another 432 Light and 275 Heavy Cruisers.
Both London Midland Scottish and Nuffield’s had been working on heavy cruiser designs under the specifications A14 and A16 respectfully. The LMS A14E1 wasn’t running yet, it wasn’t expected until June at the earliest, but at the last visit it already looked as if was going to weigh more than five tons in excess of the 24 ton limit it had been set at, even though the armour was only just over an inch at its thickest. Part of the problem was the new form of the Wilson steering which offered a choice of seven speeds for each track. It was extremely complicated and had a weight penalty, but it was considered an improvement on skid steering because it didn’t waste power.
Nuffield’s A16, like LMS’ A14 also was designed with two forward machine gun turrets in addition to the main turret’s co-axial MG and 2-pdr. It was expected to be delivered to the MEE at Farnborough in a week or so. Major-General Davidson had never been terribly keen on the A16. Since Crawford had replaced Martel, some of Martel’s particular pet projects were falling out of favour, including the A16, which had been dogged by problems due to changes to various specifications. In the judgement of Davidson as Director of Mechanisation the A16 wasn’t going to be a practical proposition for volume production as it would be prohibitively expensive and its weight would lower its manufacturing output. It also looked like the Liberty engine would struggle to deal with the weight of the design.
In the meantime, LMS had been working on the A13 Mark III (Covenanter*), whose low silhouette and greater speed was considered more advantageous than the A14 specification and already 100 of these had been ordered without requiring a pilot model. At the same time Nuffield had been working on what some at the meeting called the A13 Mark IV (Crusader*), though it had also been given the reissued A15 specification. Since this would be some five tons lighter than the A16, it was possible to increase the armour basis to one and a half inchs (40mm) on the turret and one inch (30mm) on the hull. This would add a ton to the weight and reduce the maximum speed from 31 to 28mph. At this point General Davidson remarked that this came very close to the original 1938 specification for the A14 and A16. Brigadier Laurence Carr, Director of Staff Duties, wondered if this realistically wasn’t just another Light Cruiser, but considering the circumstances it would have to be used in the heavy cruiser role.
Davidson therefore proposed ordering four hundred cruisers, preferably 200 Mark IVs (Crusader*) and another 200 Mark IIIs (Covenanter*). The Mark III was certainly the inferior of the two, but a great deal of its design work had already been completed and so production could begin sooner. Another one hundred would be ordered from which ever of the models could bring in new firms as sources of production.
Carr’s deputy at SD7 branch, the office responsible for the equipment and organisation of the armoured forces, was Brigadier Frederick Hotblack who had spent a couple of years in Germany as Military Attaché. As Deputy Director of Staff Duties, Hotblack had been impressed with the Valiant’s specification, it was already better protected than the proposed A13 Mark IV, and although slower, it wasn’t anything like the Vulcan’s A12 speed. If Nuffield’s Mark IV was coming in at 28mph, the Valiant was only five miles per hour slower. The Valiant was also much further forward, at best Nuffield wouldn’t be able to produce their tank for service until Spring 1941, while the Valiant would be in production in Spring 1940. During his time in Germany he’d got a real sense of the way the Nazis were going about their rearmament and Hitler’s designs for Lebensraum. He had come to the conclusion that the British army would need to speed up its preparations for war. He was also of the opinion that a bird in the hand was worth two in the bush.
The other thing that convinced Hotblack about the value of the Valiant was that he had befriended a few officers in the Panzwerwaffe of the Wehrmacht. They had looked at the same results of the Experimental Mechanical Force exercises but had drawn different conclusions from the British. The Panzer Divisions were combined arms units, with two panzer regiments, a motorised Infantry Brigade, reconnaissance battalion, motorised artillery and ancillary support all combined in an integrated force. In comparison the new 1st Armoured Division was tank heavy, its Support Group of infantry with anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns, were just enough to protect the tanks when they were laagered up. He didn’t know a great deal about the latest German tanks, but he was sure that the way they were heading from the Panzer I and II was that they were working on what the British called Medium tanks.
It seemed to Hotblack that both the proposed cruiser tanks weren’t much of an improvement on the A13, especially the Mark II with the same 1.1 inch armour and 2-pdr gun. The LMS Mark III looked very smart and fast but Hotblack considered it a dead end. There didn’t seem to be any room for improvement in armour or weaponry. The Nuffield Mark IV looked a bit better, but Hotblack wasn’t quite so sure that the timetable that the company was proposing was realistic. From design to service in two years would be a stretch. From what he was hearing about the various parts of the design other than the Christie suspension, the Meadows engine, and Wilson steering weren’t fully worked up. Without pilot models to work through some of the problems, the chances were that once the tanks entered into service they would probably be unreliable.
On the other hand, the Vicker’s Valiant was a good tank, and with room for improvement. If an extra 400 of these were ordered instead of the two cruiser types, they would be in service faster and be more capable from the get go. A Tank Brigade made up of Valiants, working in conjunction with a Motorised Infantry Division would be a far more effective military force, going back to his experience with the Tank Corps in 1918. His however, was a voice crying in the wilderness it seemed. Cruiser tanks was what a British Armoured Division needed and Cruiser tanks was what they would get. The Infantry tanks in Tank Brigades were all well and good, but an Armoured Division had a mission, and that mission needed fast tanks, faster than the Valiant at least.
(*names given subsequently as Covenanter and Crusader are not yet actually used here)
With Giffard Martel having been promoted and given command of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division, he had been replaced by Brigadier John Crawford, who had been one of Martel’s Assistant Deputy Directors of Mechanisation.
Crawford joined the meeting in the office of the Director of Mechanisation, Major-General Alexander Davidson. The meeting was to discuss future orders for cruiser tanks. The requirement for cruisers had risen substantially to 1285. 262 were requested for the rapidly expanding Territorial Army to supplement the forty-two they had been promised for training. Since the Mobile Division was to be replaced with two Armoured Divisions, their requirement meant there was a need for many more cruiser tanks.
Using the distinction between the light and heavy cruisers continued to cause problems, as only Vickers’ A10 could be considered in the heavy category, and there were some at the meeting who were unhappy with Vickers decision not to change the design to take a hull mounted machine gun. Each Division would have a Light and a Heavy Brigade, so 435 Heavies were needed, but orders had only been given for 160 A10 (Cruiser Mark II). There had been orders for 420 light cruisers made out of the requirement for 852. The orders made so far were for 125 A9 (Cruiser Mark I), 65 A13 (Cruiser Mark III), 130 A13 Mark II (Cruiser Mark IV) and 100 for the paper design of the A13 Mark III (Cruiser Mark V Covenanter*) ‘from the drawing board’. That left the need for another 432 Light and 275 Heavy Cruisers.
Both London Midland Scottish and Nuffield’s had been working on heavy cruiser designs under the specifications A14 and A16 respectfully. The LMS A14E1 wasn’t running yet, it wasn’t expected until June at the earliest, but at the last visit it already looked as if was going to weigh more than five tons in excess of the 24 ton limit it had been set at, even though the armour was only just over an inch at its thickest. Part of the problem was the new form of the Wilson steering which offered a choice of seven speeds for each track. It was extremely complicated and had a weight penalty, but it was considered an improvement on skid steering because it didn’t waste power.
Nuffield’s A16, like LMS’ A14 also was designed with two forward machine gun turrets in addition to the main turret’s co-axial MG and 2-pdr. It was expected to be delivered to the MEE at Farnborough in a week or so. Major-General Davidson had never been terribly keen on the A16. Since Crawford had replaced Martel, some of Martel’s particular pet projects were falling out of favour, including the A16, which had been dogged by problems due to changes to various specifications. In the judgement of Davidson as Director of Mechanisation the A16 wasn’t going to be a practical proposition for volume production as it would be prohibitively expensive and its weight would lower its manufacturing output. It also looked like the Liberty engine would struggle to deal with the weight of the design.
In the meantime, LMS had been working on the A13 Mark III (Covenanter*), whose low silhouette and greater speed was considered more advantageous than the A14 specification and already 100 of these had been ordered without requiring a pilot model. At the same time Nuffield had been working on what some at the meeting called the A13 Mark IV (Crusader*), though it had also been given the reissued A15 specification. Since this would be some five tons lighter than the A16, it was possible to increase the armour basis to one and a half inchs (40mm) on the turret and one inch (30mm) on the hull. This would add a ton to the weight and reduce the maximum speed from 31 to 28mph. At this point General Davidson remarked that this came very close to the original 1938 specification for the A14 and A16. Brigadier Laurence Carr, Director of Staff Duties, wondered if this realistically wasn’t just another Light Cruiser, but considering the circumstances it would have to be used in the heavy cruiser role.
Davidson therefore proposed ordering four hundred cruisers, preferably 200 Mark IVs (Crusader*) and another 200 Mark IIIs (Covenanter*). The Mark III was certainly the inferior of the two, but a great deal of its design work had already been completed and so production could begin sooner. Another one hundred would be ordered from which ever of the models could bring in new firms as sources of production.
Carr’s deputy at SD7 branch, the office responsible for the equipment and organisation of the armoured forces, was Brigadier Frederick Hotblack who had spent a couple of years in Germany as Military Attaché. As Deputy Director of Staff Duties, Hotblack had been impressed with the Valiant’s specification, it was already better protected than the proposed A13 Mark IV, and although slower, it wasn’t anything like the Vulcan’s A12 speed. If Nuffield’s Mark IV was coming in at 28mph, the Valiant was only five miles per hour slower. The Valiant was also much further forward, at best Nuffield wouldn’t be able to produce their tank for service until Spring 1941, while the Valiant would be in production in Spring 1940. During his time in Germany he’d got a real sense of the way the Nazis were going about their rearmament and Hitler’s designs for Lebensraum. He had come to the conclusion that the British army would need to speed up its preparations for war. He was also of the opinion that a bird in the hand was worth two in the bush.
The other thing that convinced Hotblack about the value of the Valiant was that he had befriended a few officers in the Panzwerwaffe of the Wehrmacht. They had looked at the same results of the Experimental Mechanical Force exercises but had drawn different conclusions from the British. The Panzer Divisions were combined arms units, with two panzer regiments, a motorised Infantry Brigade, reconnaissance battalion, motorised artillery and ancillary support all combined in an integrated force. In comparison the new 1st Armoured Division was tank heavy, its Support Group of infantry with anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns, were just enough to protect the tanks when they were laagered up. He didn’t know a great deal about the latest German tanks, but he was sure that the way they were heading from the Panzer I and II was that they were working on what the British called Medium tanks.
It seemed to Hotblack that both the proposed cruiser tanks weren’t much of an improvement on the A13, especially the Mark II with the same 1.1 inch armour and 2-pdr gun. The LMS Mark III looked very smart and fast but Hotblack considered it a dead end. There didn’t seem to be any room for improvement in armour or weaponry. The Nuffield Mark IV looked a bit better, but Hotblack wasn’t quite so sure that the timetable that the company was proposing was realistic. From design to service in two years would be a stretch. From what he was hearing about the various parts of the design other than the Christie suspension, the Meadows engine, and Wilson steering weren’t fully worked up. Without pilot models to work through some of the problems, the chances were that once the tanks entered into service they would probably be unreliable.
On the other hand, the Vicker’s Valiant was a good tank, and with room for improvement. If an extra 400 of these were ordered instead of the two cruiser types, they would be in service faster and be more capable from the get go. A Tank Brigade made up of Valiants, working in conjunction with a Motorised Infantry Division would be a far more effective military force, going back to his experience with the Tank Corps in 1918. His however, was a voice crying in the wilderness it seemed. Cruiser tanks was what a British Armoured Division needed and Cruiser tanks was what they would get. The Infantry tanks in Tank Brigades were all well and good, but an Armoured Division had a mission, and that mission needed fast tanks, faster than the Valiant at least.
(*names given subsequently as Covenanter and Crusader are not yet actually used here)
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