Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

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Been thinking about the 3.7inc and new gun breech for tank gun to use could work all you do is keep the 3.7inc barrel deisgh a new breech for the gun that could fit in to a tank? in time line that should work rigth. Work could take place in late 41 and we may see a cenrturion tank come off the lines in 43 with a new 3.7in gun and breech .
 
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Been thinking about the 3.7inc and new gun breech for tank gun to use could work all you do is keep the 3.7inc barrel deisgh a new breech for the gun that could fit in to a tank? in time line that should work rigth. Work could take place in late 41 and we may see a cenrturion tank come off the lines in 43 with a new 3.7in gun and breech .
The QF 32 Pounder was the OTL tank/anti tank gun actually made and armed the A39 Tortoise plus was trialled in competition with the 20 pounder as the upgrade from the 17 Pounder for the Centurion.
 
The QF 32 Pounder was the OTL tank/anti tank gun actually made and armed the A39 Tortoise plus was trialled in competition with the 20 pounder as the upgrade from the 17 Pounder for the Centurion.
A bit OT, but why was the 20pr chosen over the 32pr.? The Centurion was later upgraded to the 105mm gun so could have fitted the 32pr.

The 20pr was chosen for the Charioteer tank destroyer on a Cromwell chassis but i think that was later.
 
17 May 1941. Royal Tunbridge Wells, England.
17 May 1941. Royal Turnbridge Wells, England.

General Bernard Montgomery, GOC of XII Corps, was reviewing with his Staff, the lessons of the first exercise that the Corps had participated in since he taken command. The work of Lieutenant-General Andrew Thorne in setting up XII Corps, and preparing for the invasion that never came, had been excellent. Thorne was now GOC Scotland, and Montgomery had a high regard for his colleague whose 48th Division had done so well at Dunkirk. What Montgomery had inherited since taking over in April was an efficient organisation. However, there was room for improvement, and if commanding V Corps had taught Montgomery anything, it was that there was always room for improvement.

The exercise on Salisbury Plain had primarily been a Divisional exercise for 6th Armoured Division’s. The 56th (London) Infantry Division had played the opposition force, with tank support from 43rd Royal Tank Regiment, part of 25th Tank Brigade. Montgomery had been watching the exercise, in which General Stopford (GOC 56th Division) had tried to use his 169th Brigade and the tanks in the way a Panzer Division would. Having studied all the German equipment captured before Dunkirk, and interviewing some of the POW officers, Stopford had been attempting to use the men, artillery, tanks and RAF support in an integrated fashion. By doing so he’d managed to split the 6th Armoured Division and then take on each Armoured Brigade piecemeal. The Valiant I Infantry Tanks weren’t as fast as the German panzers would have been, but the umpires had noted that 6th Armoured Division would have been severely depleted by the end of the exercise, and that the opposition force had been the victors of the exercise.

Montgomery, along with his superior, General Alan Brooke, had agreed that the lessons of the fighting in France and Flanders still had to be learned by the British formations. By splitting up his forces, the GOC 6th Armoured had doomed them, especially when it became clear that the Divisional artillery weren’t able to support the separated Brigades. Whereas Stopford’s force, with the Divisional Signals playing an exceptional role, had managed to keep all the elements of the force under his command, including the RAF, working together effectively, and thereby winning the day.

There was no great secret to the German successes, it wasn’t too different to what the British Army had been doing in the last 100 days of the Great War. The importance of signals, shown by the elements of the German radio network captured, had been the key to making it work. The fact that 6th Division’s transmissions in the clear had been intercepted and used against them was an important lesson that had to be communicated far and wide. Concentration of force, tanks and infantry, with sufficient artillery and air support, coupled with mobility and subordinate commanders’ initiative, seemed to be the winning formula.

What had happened at Nofilia, where General O’Connor had split his force and nearly had it destroyed, was further proof that taking on the Germans, unlike the Italians, demanded all units needed to cooperate effectively or they’d be destroyed individually. With these thoughts in mind, Montgomery staff with his staff to work out the kind of training exercises where these lessons could be practiced and practiced until they were second nature to everyone in the Corps.

As usual the lessons of the exercise had been widely distributed around the rest of the army, and Montgomery noticed that General Alan Brooke had added his own comments regarding offensive operations. Most of the army’s experience up until now, in Norway, Flanders, France and mostly recently, Greece, had been defensive in nature and often took the form of a fighting withdrawal. It was going to be essential for the army to move from training to resist an invasion, to going on the offensive. The lessons of Operation Compass against the Italians were of limited use in a European context, but nevertheless, all commanders were to begin to focus on training to attack and defeat the enemy.
 
Once the information on how the Germans use Sigint get to General O'Connor, there are going to be some very awkward conversations to be had. Hopefully they can turn this weakness into a strength, using fake communications to mislead the enemy.
 
the 3.7inch QF gun is a serious artillery piece that would be very difficult to get into a tank turret.
... which was always the problem. The towed version of the 3.7" was too heavy and bulky to be used in anything other than static emplacements (the German 88mm was just that little bit smaller and lighter, which meant that it could be just barely tactically mobile) and the SP version was call Tortoise for a reason.

More to the point, it's 1941 and the 3.7" is way too much club for anything the British are facing or anticipating. The new 6pdr can handle any current German, Italian or Japanese tank, and the HV75mm/17pdr is in development for the next generation. The Tiger is a year off and the Panther even further, and wide deployment of tanks/TDs with with the HV75mm is likely to prove a better antidote than a handful of experimental 50-ton 10mph super-Archers.

Matilda IIs in Malaya is an interesting departure - as has been said above, they should do well breaking Japanese roadblocks. What worries me is that with the lack of railways in Malaya their strategic mobility will be pretty much nil. I hope most of them don't end up being destroyed by their crews when cut off and out of fuel.
 
The last couple of chapters are starting to come off as a description of a training/building montage. What music to queue though? Probably something from this?
 
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A bit OT, but why was the 20pr chosen over the 32pr.? The Centurion was later upgraded to the 105mm gun so could have fitted the 32pr.

The 20pr was chosen for the Charioteer tank destroyer on a Cromwell chassis but i think that was later.
The size, weight and small number of rounds of 32 pounder that could be carried plus trying to not only squeeze in the breech and recoil length but give a human loader the room to lift and move them. Easy in a Tortoise but it was never going to fit into a Centurion turret. At least not with the humans in there too.
 
The obvious answer to the 3.7" being too much gun is to wait until the enemy tanks are in a column then open fire. Could probably go through 2 German ones, maybe 4 Italian & at least 6 Japanese ones. 😛😛
 
From the looks of things, the British establishment is much more on the ball as a whole due to at least slowing down if not stopping the early-war fall of dominoes. With three corps-level formations fighting two (I believe?), of which only one is a peer in materiel and overall training, they need either a massive blunder or a total lack of air assets to not convincingly win.
Three corps are more than enough to finish the Axis in Tripolitania. In any case, it will be impossible to support more than a single corps at the frontline in Sirte, El Agheila or any place between them. By having three corps, Wavell has the luxury of rotating his forces, with one corps on the frontline - either defending or advancing- a second corps around Benghazi and a third one around Tobruk.

I think though that the Free French will soon find themselves on the frontline. It is politically important to show active French participation, even if it is just a single brigade.

When it comes to aerial warfare, the Germans now have only X Fliegerkorps that operates mostly from airfields in Attica rather than Crete and has Crete as its target. As we have established, Crete cannot be starved. Therefore, in TTL the Luftwaffe is investing its assets in a fruitless endeavor. In contrast, in OTL they used the X Fliegerkorps to contest the airspace between Crete and Cyrenaica. Just by having a different location and mission for the X Fliegerkorps, the british logistics in eastern Mediterranean are easier while the Axis logistics face more challenges.

I suspect that the compound interest of holding Crete, western Cyrenaica (the airfields around Benghazi) and a ferry route to Malta, will make the supply situation for the Axis dire. Not in May, not in June. But by September for sure. From a logistics point of view, it seems plausible to have an ATL Crusader earlier at October. Depending on how the campaign progresses, the frontline in October can be in El Agheila or Sirte. But regardless of the battlefield, it seems to me that the Allied built-up will be complete by September.

An ATL Crusader will entail both stronger Allied and weaker Axis forces compared to OTL. If October 1941 is a mensis mirabilis for Wavell, then on December 7th, he can release his strategic reserve for SE Asia. Said reserve has enough time to arrive at Java in early February before the IJA attack. I take for granted that there was enough shipping in the Indian Ocean to lift at least a single division. I have read nothing that would indicate a dearth of shipping.


Those Australian veterans of the hard-fought retreat in Greece will in all probability give the Japanese a very unpleasant welcome and teach their greener peers the ropes while doing so. If they actually do get Matildas, I can't see the Japanese come close to threatening Kuala Lumpur, never mind Singapore.

Absolutely. With the additional forces already assigned to Malaya, Operation Matador can take place. The battle will be fought on the Kra Isthmus under favorable circumstances.
 

marathag

Banned
the 3.7inch QF gun is a serious artillery piece that would be very difficult to get into a tank turret.
Soviet 122mm in Yugoslav military aid M4A3
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Not entirely successful, very limited gun depression.
Not bad on a 69" turret ring, however
 
There was no great secret to the German successes, it wasn’t too different to what the British Army had been doing in the last 100 days of the Great War.
Good update, I appreciated the nod to the foundations of integrated warfare in the closing days of the last war.
Looks like my worries about signals interceptions leading to crackdowns on radio use were unfounded, the response looks to be going the other way towards better codes and perhaps low-power radio relays as a stopgap measure.

Once again good intelligence combined with a willingness to game out ideas in simulation is paying dividends.
Looking forward to seeing the next update!
 
Hello,

Shermans were to most Japanese tanks what Tigers were to most western Allied tanks.
I'm a big fan of the Sherman both as an expeditionary tank design and for its actual usefulness in combat but it was still on the drawing board at the current time of the TL with the first couple of hundred reaching the front lines only in time for 2nd El Alemain at the end of 42 - about 18 months away and far too late for Malaya.
The M3's will be very popular out east, of that I have no doubt. The issue is that the Far East will very definitely be considered secondary so no matter how many favourable reports get sent back about them they won't be given the same weight as reports from Europe.
It was an M3 Lee that was literally 'dragged up the side of a muddy hill' onto the Ridge that decided the 13 day Battle of the Tennis court - with Sergeant Waterhouse's M3 driving to within 20 meters of Japanese Bunkers and end them with 75mm gun fire.

The IJA troops had no answer to it.

With TTL's improved tank production and what there is of better than OTL tanks - who knows - maybe Malaya does not fall or falls far later, the Japanese invasion of Burma cannot happen and the Rangoon Burma railhead into China remains open
 
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