Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

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MattII

vizzer said:
And with the pom-poms of the A11s they've also increased the AA capability of the airfields as an A11 has managed to shoot down an a/c once.
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That, I would think is a fairly remote chance. Like hearing of a Fairey Battle that managed to survive long enough to hit its target.

thegreatpl said:
I'm not sure it really matters. According to the wikipedia page on the Order of Battle, they only had two Matildas and ten Light Tank MKVI. That appears to have been their entire tank force (correct me if I am wrong). Furthermore, reading through the page and the number of Royal Artillery detachments who are marked as fighting as infantry as they don't have equipment.
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The main page lists nine and sixteen respectively, so I'd guess the two and ten was the mobile reserve.

thegreatpl said:
Do the Fallschirmjäger have anti-tank weapons? The order of battle lists two battalions as part of the 7th Flieger Division and 5th Gerbirgs Division (1 each) and both Divisions also have an artillery battalion, but the question is whether those were landed by airdrop or not, or if they came in later (or even at all).
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Yes, this is a question isn't it.

thegreatpl said:
Capturing the airfields was what let them bring in enough reinforcements to win OTL. I suspect it will not be so easy ITTL.
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No, Matilda Is with pom-poms will certainly not make advancing easy.
 
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duckie

MattII said:
That, I would think is a fairly remote chance. Like hearing of a Fairey Battle that managed to survive long enough to hit its target.


The main page lists nine and sixteen respectively, so I'd guess the two and ten was the mobile reserve.


Yes, this is a question isn't it.


No, Matilda Is with pom-poms will certainly not make advancing easy.
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It could be a bit of an Deja-vu for the Fallschirmjager,

Take a look at this account of the Battle for Ypenburg in 1940.

 

ArtosStark

MattII said:
Hoo boy, something tells me the Fallschirmjäger are in for a rough time.

I do wonder though, how does that compare to the OTL forces? Are the Matilda Is' pom-poms likely to see them do better than the OTL Matilda IIs against the paratroopers?
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IOTL there were around 3 Matilda II's at each air field. They broke down on the first attack at Maleme, IIRC, which left the defenders there at a disadvantage.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
thegreatpl said:
Do the Fallschirmjäger have anti-tank weapons? The order of battle lists two battalions as part of the 7th Flieger Division and 5th Gerbirgs Division (1 each) and both Divisions also have an artillery battalion, but the question is whether those were landed by airdrop or not, or if they came in later (or even at all).
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Yes but marginal capability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Leichtgeschütz_40

Low muzzle velocity 75 mm recoiless. Solid AP unlikely to worry Matildas except at very close range - HEAT rounds (might be some available) would be more effective
 

steamboy

If Crete's better defended, especially Suda bay and most importantly the airfields, then the Fallschrimmy's are going to get chewed up and spat out.
 

Cryhavoc101

allanpcameron said:
Brigadier Ord Tidbury, in his dual role of Commander of CreForce, and Commanding Officer of 14th Infantry Brigade, (which made up the lions share of the army’s garrison on Crete), invited Lt-Col Eric Clarke, CO 51st Bn RTR, to come and have a chat about how best to make use of the tanks. Like most of the infantry formations in the Middle East, 14th Infantry Brigade were poorly supplied with Motor Transport. Three Battalions were far too few for the job of protecting the island, and without enough transport, and the unbelievably poor road network, each Battalion were guarding a particular area, but unable to support one another. When Lt-Col Clarke gave his new Commanding Officer his report on the condition of his Battalion, Tidbury was underwhelmed. His hope had been to have the tanks act as a mobile reserve, able to move from one threat to another, at least more rapidly than his infantry.
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Nice one, great update - Crete needs to be considered in practice as '3 islands' (East, Centre and West) connected at the northern ends by tenuous land bridges - which you have obviously understood and appreciated.

This made it very difficult for the NZ Division and other units to defend especially as they had left most of their M/T, many of their radios and all of their Artillery in Greece limiting most of their units as foot bound light infantry formations who had to spread out to defend everywhere and struggled to react to events.

As I mentioned before a full or near full TE&O establishment of M/T, radios and 25 pounders would have allowed the defenders to move to any threat and pound the shite out of it to which an airborne assault would have no answer (beyond the un-persistent support of the LW).

But a few dozen tanks would definitely help the situation.
 

CB13

First things first, Alan I've missed your updates!

You are a brilliant writer who does a wonderful job painting a beautiful mosaic with your words. I'm most certainly envious of your gift, but thankful that you're willing to share yours with those who don't possess it ourselves.

Re: Crete - I only have limited thoughts to add on a fantastic update:
1. Getting mortars into camouflaged positions in the high ground above the airfields (and/or potential amphibious naval landing zones) with as much ammunition as can be accumulated....and radios.
2. Potential of getting a few Scammell Pioneer / Tank Transporters to assist with moving units around minimizing wear and tear.
3. Potential to beg, borrow, steal whatever spare tracks are hidden in depots or ports in Egypt and East Africa.
4. Training to include "track repair" and/or "damaged vehicle recovery" under battle conditions. In short, train assuming the tanks are going to break which by now should be a point of recognition.

Can't wait until tomorrow!!! Cheers!
 

Darrenb209

Asian Jumbo said:
More likely they won’t go in at all

so where might they be used instead?
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Any other group and I would agree, but the Crete landings were political. Specifically, it was pushed by a Luftwaffe desperate to regain prestige in Hitler's eyes after the failure of the Battle of Britain. They convinced Hitler with an "audacious" plan and Hitler forced it to happen despite the German Army opposing. The Crete landings were their only option and still are TTL, because the only other active area is in Africa and that's... Not exactly easy to reach or resupply by air.
 

Schlock

Goering is going to want to upstage the Heer after the Luftwaffe's perceived failure when facing the RAF over southern England, so I can't see them not being used in Greece.

Crete was a close run thing in OTL, so with more armour available to the defenders, I think the Goering's airborne forces are in for a major defeat.

The other thing is that with a troop of Tanks assigned to each Infantry Bn, there are going to be a lot more radios on the ground keeping the various task forces in contact with each other, and that is going to be worth its weight in gold.
 

MattII

And not only do the British have more tanks, but given that the main ones are the ITTL Matilda Is with the pom-pom, so said tanks are also more useful for dealing with infantry.
 

Peg Leg Pom

They also have a 15 strong reserve of tanks that can move to the beaches when the Germans are forced to use them as landing grounds to reinforce the Para's. Also this is without the troops withdrawn from the mainland so the German task will be even more risky. Now if they can free up some fighters to cover the island the whole thing will be a non starter.
 

MattII

Another advantage this will provide is that the British will get a gander at the Fallschirmjäger's equipment. This might allow them to improve their own equipment a little bit.
 

Peg Leg Pom

MattII said:
Another advantage this will provide is that the British will get a gander at the Fallschirmjäger's equipment. This might allow them to improve their own equipment a little bit.
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The only thing the Fallschirmjager have in 1941 that the Parachute regiment might want is their recoilless rifle. Frankly their parachute is crap, the parachutist has no control over it at all, and it forces him to jump unarmed apart from a pistol.
 

MattII

Peg Leg Pom said:
The only thing the Fallschirmjager have in 1941 that the Parachute regiment might want is their recoilless rifle. Frankly their parachute is crap, the parachutist has no control over it at all, and it forces him to jump unarmed apart from a pistol.
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Well, sometimes you can learn to do, and sometimes you can learn what not to do. And yes, I was thinking of the recoilless rifle (though even this was flawed). Mind you, they also had some innovative ideas about air support for the parachutists, which the British may look at.

There's also the question of lighter naval losses.
 
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Peg Leg Pom

The British know all about HEAT rounds already.

en.wikipedia.org

No. 68 AT grenade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

1620776284237.png
 
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