Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

Hate it when my alerts don’t work still the Germans took a pounding here whoever the commander is they are going to have to dig them out and when the fact the Germans are starting to probe goes up the chain a lot more troops will be kick lose to build up the reserve but given the fewer casualties taken along with better tanks and more time to set up logistics means they are in a better position than OTL somewhat.
 
Would the German High Command actually shake loose better AT weapons for a small formation in Libya though? Or would they assume thatt he British wouldn't have had time to manufacture enough new tanks to actually be a threat to the Afrika Korps?

How do the German and British manufacturing times compare in case that would have an affect on the command's assumptions on how fast the British could rearm with better tanks?

Edit: I know a lot of the German kit wasn't exactly set up for mass production and they had trouble adapting some stuff like the AT weapons from skilled craftsmanship into something that they could build on whaat approached what we would recongise as a modern production line

Edit, Edit: I think the PAK40 was a particular victim of this and I wouldn't be surprised if their tanks were even worse
 
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For the Germans in early 1941 the Balkans are a side show and North Africa a side show of that side show. They're at the back of the que for decent equipment.

The only reason they're in the Mediterranean theatre at all rather than invading the Soviet Union is to save Mussolini's sorry arse.
 
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For the Germans in early 1941 the Balkans are a side show and North Africa a side show of that side show. They're at the back of the que for decent equipment.
Also decent replacement troops as well if any everything worth having will be going for operations on the Russian front.
 
Would the German High Command actually shake loose better AT weapons for a small formation in Libya though? Or would they assume thatt he British wouldn't have had time to manufacture enough new tanks to actually be a threat to the Afrika Korps?

How do the German and British manufacturing times compare in case that would have an affect on the command's assumptions on how fast the British could rearm with better tanks?

Edit: I know a lot of the German kit wasn't exactly set up for mass production and they had trouble adapting some stuff like the AT weapons from skilled craftsmanship into something that they could build on whaat approached what we would recongise as a modern production line

Edit, Edit: I think the PAK40 was a particular victim of this and I wouldn't be surprised if their tanks were even worse
For the German high command Africa was somewhere to send the minimum amount of stuff to keep the Italians in the game.
It wasn't somewhere where a strategic victory was plausible, and the orders were to defend. Equipment and supplies were provided for that.
(Rommel deciding to ignore his orders and attack was in character, but not planned for).
At least 2 of the axis columns in operation sonnenblume ran out of fuel, and sat in the middle of the cyrenaica desert until supplies caught up.

Cutting edge kit doesn't get sent to second or third priority theatres, at least not in more than penny packets.
 

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The Italians got their butts kicked by the French - they are getting their butts kicked by the Greeks

Can you believe anything they say??
 
Here's a thought I just had.

In essence the Valiant is a continuation of the A9 and A10 tanks in some respects, visually at least based on the images that have been posted.
It is very possible that the Germans either think that the recon troops are just describing either an A9 or A10 or they have encountered the next in the series, perhaps a better engine has been fitted so it has the armour of the A10 and the speed of the A9. If that is the case then the Panzer 3 and 4 can deal with it without too much difficulty. They just need to avoid the gun.
 
That's the question, isn't it?

The Germans had a very dismissive opinion of the Italians in Africa in OTL, they'd have a much worse one in TTL considering that things went quite a bit worse.

The way I see it, the reports will all have been dismissed as covering for their mistakes and attempting to pass the blame onto the enemy.

After the first few battles then they'll start believing though but right now it sounds far more likely from their perspective that the Italians are just that bad. Not helped by the fact that they're struggling against the Greeks as well.
 
Here's a thought I just had.

In essence the Valiant is a continuation of the A9 and A10 tanks in some respects, visually at least based on the images that have been posted.
It is very possible that the Germans either think that the recon troops are just describing either an A9 or A10 or they have encountered the next in the series, perhaps a better engine has been fitted so it has the armour of the A10 and the speed of the A9. If that is the case then the Panzer 3 and 4 can deal with it without too much difficulty. They just need to avoid the gun.
Isn't the valiant described as having a sloped hull and turret? Or am I misremembering?
 
Wouldn't the Italians have proof in terms of photographs (from either ground or aerial reconnaissance units) that the British & associated forces have a 'different' tank?
Okay, a photograph may not say much about how said tank performs, but it is at least evidence that something exists...
 
Wouldn't the Italians have proof in terms of photographs (from either ground or aerial reconnaissance units) that the British & associated forces have a 'different' tank?
Okay, a photograph may not say much about how said tank performs, but it is at least evidence that something exists...
The Germans now have accounts from their own reconnaissance units too. It still doesn't tell them anything useful.
 
The Germans now have accounts from their own reconnaissance units too. It still doesn't tell them anything useful.
Armoured cars are expected to get trounced by actual tanks. The Germans won't be surprised to have been driven off and have learned nothing about the Valiants except that they are there.
 
Wouldn't the Italians have proof in terms of photographs (from either ground or aerial reconnaissance units) that the British & associated forces have a 'different' tank?
Okay, a photograph may not say much about how said tank performs, but it is at least evidence that something exists...
What can you gain from these photos, other than general details
 
What can you gain from these photos, other than general details
There seemed to me to be at least one strand in discussion to the effect of: 'the Germans won't believe that the British have any tanks which the Germans haven't already seen plenty of in France'...
It seems to me that evidence should exist in the form of reconnaissance photography that would at least assure the Germans that the British had something which the Germans had not seen a great deal of, already, in France.
 
The Germans do know that the Valiant exists by now. The (cleaned up to make it look deliberate) story of the three prototypes that went to France and captured examples of German equipment to send back to Britain during the Battle of France will have been spread all over the world for its propaganda value. There's probably already a bad film out there.
 
There seemed to me to be at least one strand in discussion to the effect of: 'the Germans won't believe that the British have any tanks which the Germans haven't already seen plenty of in France'...
It seems to me that evidence should exist in the form of reconnaissance photography that would at least assure the Germans that the British had something which the Germans had not seen a great deal of, already, in France.
There's a difference between having an idea that the enemy has a new piece of equipment, and knowing the stats of that equipment.
 
Isn't the valiant described as having a sloped hull and turret? Or am I misremembering?

Im going off the illustrations that Allanpcameron has given his backing too. They do give the Valiant a real resemblance to the A9 and A10, particularly the turret shape. Also the A9 and A10 are quite different ITTL, the A9 has no sub turrets for example.
 
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