You could build a bigger tank with the Mollins 6-pdr sorta-pom-pom...
Or mounting multiple 2-pdrs
Or mounting multiple 2-pdrs
Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
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The Valiant has a 60" turret, that's too big for an armoured car. You'd IMO be better off with the Matilda II turret.
Or one of the Cruiser turrets?
And why too big?
Its not like the Armour car has to worry about the turret overhanging the tracks as the wheel as forward and rear of that area which is a problem with the continuous track system of a tank.
True. OTOH, a bigger turret (especially a heavily armoured one) is a heavier turret, and excess weight is something you really want to avoid, as it compromises your speed and mobility.
The Mk1 was 11 tons
How much heavier than a Valentine Turret do we think the Valiant Turret or Valiant* Turret is?
Hm, looking at it, probably not a hell of a lot I suppose. OTOH, do you need, or even want a turret capable of mounting a 6-pounder gun?
Well OTL the AEC 1 had the same 2 pounder gun turret as the early Valentine
The the Mk II had the 6 pounder turret of the later Valentine
And the Mk III had the later 75mm of the even later valentine
So yes
This is interesting. OTL the British force took up positions on the Aliakmon line, but the Greek forces in front of them on the Metaxas line were surrounded and destroyed before they could fall back to it, then it was outflanked through Monastir. If the Greeks initially dig in on the Aliakmon line, they have a chance to bleed the Germans, since the mountains are bad tank territory and if they have any sort of reserve the first breakthrough needn't lead to the snowballing collapse seen OTL.
On the other hand, the problem with an initial deployment at Aliakmon is that it effectively surrenders Thessaloniki without a fight. I doubt this will be acceptable to the Greeks, so I expect that some of those 35 battalions will end up deployed forward and not be able to run fast enough when the hammer falls. 1st AB may be intended as a screening force, but it's likely to wind up being used against German spearheads to try and keep the lines of retreat open for the the Greeks in front of them. And I suspect both the British and the Greeks over-estimate how fast they can move on Greek roads once the Stukas show up.
True. Although the obvious option there is more Hurricanes, lots more Hurricanes than were deployed OTL. Its not perfect (they really need Spitfire's) but Hurricane's kill Stuka's and level bombers and aren't completely useless against the then current 109 model. OTL 80 squadron (which Roald Dahl was part of) and the others killed alot of bombers but were to few in numbers and were atrited out of existence until the axis could bomb at will.
The trick of course is finding planes that can be spared from all the other jobs the RAF needs to do.
Littlejohn prevents the use of HE rounds. Something the Armoured Car Regts. found in NW Europe. They would often have one or two vehicles in a troop go without the Littlejohn and they would support the other vehicles which had it.
OMG, that refs to the 8 pdr...been trying to find bore of that baby for years...
A 57mm autoloader in the early-to-mid 40s?
You know what, I like it.
I question the turret layout that would allow the ammunition feeds for such a contraption, but as a concept it's not unreasonable.
Actually, after a second's thought I think it might be a pretty reasonable 'light' CS tank if you mounted the gun in a casement, TD/assault gun style instead of in a turret. You sacrifice the 360 range of the turret in exchange for increased internal volume for the magazines and crew. Depending on the mounting you could still get a reasonable range of traverse, well over 90 degrees if you're clever.
British created the "Firefly" a wheeled tank destroyer, armed with a 6 Pdr gun and a Molins autoloader in IIRC 1942. Molins had come to fame with cigarette rolling and packing machines in the 1930s. They created an autoloader in 1941 and it was initially used on MGBs with the naval 6 Pdr gun and then first mounted on the Mosquito in 1943. The "Firefly" was not adopted.
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You know what, if they tried the same on surplus tank hulls instead of an armoured car I think you'd have something with a chance at adoption. Then again, if you did a really good job with the car chassis (ie: better than the Morris car the OTL Firefly was built on), a Molins 'Auto-Six' would make a hell of a heavy Armoured Car for a Recce group.
The issue with the Molins autoloader is just the size of the thing preventing it from squeezing into a reasonably-sized turret so I feel pretty confident in restricting it to a casement or open-top vehicle.
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You'd need to either have short magazines like the 4-shot boxes already used TTL on the pom-pom so you could swap out, or if you're using a larger magazine or 'belt', a magazine cutoff/override so you can manual load in the alternate ammo. I'd assume HE as your standard ammo in the latter case, with AP in a ready rack for manual insertion.
Britain has Valiant so its likely they'll try to avoid buying those wretched things this time round.
28 February 1941. Benghazi, Libya.
allanpcameron
Donor
28 February 1941. Benghazi, Libya.
General Leslie Morshead, General Officer Commanding 9th Australian Infantry Division congratulated the men of 8th Battery, Australian 2/3 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. The morning air raid had been seen off once more, and the crews of at least two German aircraft wouldn’t be having breakfast with their squadron mates. The level of AA fire from the port and harbour was intense, and to Morshead, it looked as if the German bombing was inaccurate and hurried. The Harbour Master might not entirely agree, there was at least one near miss on a freighter which had been peppered with shrapnel, and the blazing fire in a storage compound meant that at least part of a ship’s cargo had been lost to enemy action.
Morshead was in Benghazi as he was keen on meeting as many of the men of 20th Brigade based there as he could. Brigadier John Murray, as the Brigade CO, was showing the General around. The three Australian Battalions (2/13th, 2/15th and 2/17th) were responsible for the defence of Benghazi while still getting themselves fully trained and equipped. The 2/17th Battalion were dug in around the south of the port, with two of their Companies involved in fire-fighting and supporting the AA gunners. 2/15th Battalion were further south around Beda Fomm, where they were tied into the positions supporting 22nd Armoured Brigade. 2/13th Battalion were the first unit to have taken casualties in 9th Division, one of their lorries having been attacked by German aircraft. Their positions were in and around the airfield at Benina. One company were guarding the last of the prisoners taken from the fighting around Benghazi, while the rest protected the airfield and its radar station.
General Morshead expressed his concern to Brigadier Murray that the men weren’t getting enough training for offensive actions. Having taken over these particular roles, important as they were, Morshead knew that General O’Connor was hoping that the 9th Australian Division would be able to emulate the work done by the 6th who conquered Cyrenaica. In a proposed drive towards Tripoli, all of Morshead’s men needed to think about attacking rather than defending. Murray drew his Commanding Officer’s attention to the lack of transport, the most serious deficit in the Division’s equipment.
Other parts of the equipment shortage were being solved, like the Brigade’s mortar companies being happy enough with the Italian Model 35 which they had acquired. These were all meant to have been assigned elsewhere, but the Australians had proven adept at concealing them and claiming never to have even seen them. Likewise, the light Brixia mortar was being used by most platoons as there was a shortage of the 2-inch mortar they should have been issued with. Eventually when enough proper equipment was available, then the captured Italian weapons would be ditched. Until then, there was something quite enjoyable about having all the Italian equipment to play with.
If there was going to be an attack towards Tripoli, then the Valiant infantry tanks of 40th Bn RTR would be an important part of that. The problem Morshead had found was that these tanks were being carefully husbanded. They had a lot of miles on their clocks and it was a long way back to Bardia if they broke down. The Valiant I* cruiser tanks of 22nd Armoured Brigade were also being careful about their mileage. Getting enough tanks to have the men of the 9th Division to exercise with was a problem. Eventually, after pulling some strings with General O’Connor, it was agreed that one troop of Valiant I Infantry tanks would be assigned to the Benghazi area, where each Company of Australian infantry men would have a chance to work with them. While the exercises would be limited in the amount of time that the tanks would actually move, it gave the men time to get to know the tank crews, discuss the tactics they needed to adopt, and then have some time in the field.
Morshead’s Divisional Cavalry Regiment was dead keen, and had appropriated every working Italian armoured vehicle it could get to run, to test them. Most of these were worse than useless. The L3/35 being the most common Italian armoured vehicle captured intact, in the absence of enough of their own Bren gun carriers, the Cavalry had decided to take on fifteen of them. The Breda M37 8mm machine guns at least packed a punch, once the gunners learned their idiosyncrasies. There were opportunities for the Australian cavalrymen to go on patrols with the 1st Royal Dragoons, but they drew the line at being accompanied by Italian machines. Much of what B Squadron of that Regiment was doing around Benghazi was deepening the knowledge and experience of the Australians in the reconnaissance role. Much of the Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment were using motorcycles and light cars to give them the mobility they needed, as they kept being reminded, they were armoured cavalry, not a tank regiment. The fact that their motorcycles and light cars sprouted a variety of Italian machine guns gave them a somewhat piratical air.
The other two Brigades in Morshead’s Divisions were in much the same state. 24th Brigade was distributed between Bardia and Tobruk; while 26th Brigade was acting in a policing role between Derna and Barce. Morshead had been promised that he would be given time and space to bring the Division together to exercise as a whole. In the meantime, all he could do was to insist that every officer took whatever opportunities they could to help train and develop the men for whatever their eventual role would be. The last thing he wanted was for any of his men to be sitting idle, or forgetting why they were here.
NB The arrival of the 9th Australian Division is ahead of OTL schedule, but suffered from many of the problems noted here. Spread out, under-trained and equipped, and being used for garrison duties.
General Leslie Morshead, General Officer Commanding 9th Australian Infantry Division congratulated the men of 8th Battery, Australian 2/3 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. The morning air raid had been seen off once more, and the crews of at least two German aircraft wouldn’t be having breakfast with their squadron mates. The level of AA fire from the port and harbour was intense, and to Morshead, it looked as if the German bombing was inaccurate and hurried. The Harbour Master might not entirely agree, there was at least one near miss on a freighter which had been peppered with shrapnel, and the blazing fire in a storage compound meant that at least part of a ship’s cargo had been lost to enemy action.
Morshead was in Benghazi as he was keen on meeting as many of the men of 20th Brigade based there as he could. Brigadier John Murray, as the Brigade CO, was showing the General around. The three Australian Battalions (2/13th, 2/15th and 2/17th) were responsible for the defence of Benghazi while still getting themselves fully trained and equipped. The 2/17th Battalion were dug in around the south of the port, with two of their Companies involved in fire-fighting and supporting the AA gunners. 2/15th Battalion were further south around Beda Fomm, where they were tied into the positions supporting 22nd Armoured Brigade. 2/13th Battalion were the first unit to have taken casualties in 9th Division, one of their lorries having been attacked by German aircraft. Their positions were in and around the airfield at Benina. One company were guarding the last of the prisoners taken from the fighting around Benghazi, while the rest protected the airfield and its radar station.
General Morshead expressed his concern to Brigadier Murray that the men weren’t getting enough training for offensive actions. Having taken over these particular roles, important as they were, Morshead knew that General O’Connor was hoping that the 9th Australian Division would be able to emulate the work done by the 6th who conquered Cyrenaica. In a proposed drive towards Tripoli, all of Morshead’s men needed to think about attacking rather than defending. Murray drew his Commanding Officer’s attention to the lack of transport, the most serious deficit in the Division’s equipment.
Other parts of the equipment shortage were being solved, like the Brigade’s mortar companies being happy enough with the Italian Model 35 which they had acquired. These were all meant to have been assigned elsewhere, but the Australians had proven adept at concealing them and claiming never to have even seen them. Likewise, the light Brixia mortar was being used by most platoons as there was a shortage of the 2-inch mortar they should have been issued with. Eventually when enough proper equipment was available, then the captured Italian weapons would be ditched. Until then, there was something quite enjoyable about having all the Italian equipment to play with.
If there was going to be an attack towards Tripoli, then the Valiant infantry tanks of 40th Bn RTR would be an important part of that. The problem Morshead had found was that these tanks were being carefully husbanded. They had a lot of miles on their clocks and it was a long way back to Bardia if they broke down. The Valiant I* cruiser tanks of 22nd Armoured Brigade were also being careful about their mileage. Getting enough tanks to have the men of the 9th Division to exercise with was a problem. Eventually, after pulling some strings with General O’Connor, it was agreed that one troop of Valiant I Infantry tanks would be assigned to the Benghazi area, where each Company of Australian infantry men would have a chance to work with them. While the exercises would be limited in the amount of time that the tanks would actually move, it gave the men time to get to know the tank crews, discuss the tactics they needed to adopt, and then have some time in the field.
Morshead’s Divisional Cavalry Regiment was dead keen, and had appropriated every working Italian armoured vehicle it could get to run, to test them. Most of these were worse than useless. The L3/35 being the most common Italian armoured vehicle captured intact, in the absence of enough of their own Bren gun carriers, the Cavalry had decided to take on fifteen of them. The Breda M37 8mm machine guns at least packed a punch, once the gunners learned their idiosyncrasies. There were opportunities for the Australian cavalrymen to go on patrols with the 1st Royal Dragoons, but they drew the line at being accompanied by Italian machines. Much of what B Squadron of that Regiment was doing around Benghazi was deepening the knowledge and experience of the Australians in the reconnaissance role. Much of the Australian Divisional Cavalry Regiment were using motorcycles and light cars to give them the mobility they needed, as they kept being reminded, they were armoured cavalry, not a tank regiment. The fact that their motorcycles and light cars sprouted a variety of Italian machine guns gave them a somewhat piratical air.
The other two Brigades in Morshead’s Divisions were in much the same state. 24th Brigade was distributed between Bardia and Tobruk; while 26th Brigade was acting in a policing role between Derna and Barce. Morshead had been promised that he would be given time and space to bring the Division together to exercise as a whole. In the meantime, all he could do was to insist that every officer took whatever opportunities they could to help train and develop the men for whatever their eventual role would be. The last thing he wanted was for any of his men to be sitting idle, or forgetting why they were here.
NB The arrival of the 9th Australian Division is ahead of OTL schedule, but suffered from many of the problems noted here. Spread out, under-trained and equipped, and being used for garrison duties.
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