Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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Being able to ship back that many tanks from France, along with their support tail is going to go a long way to staving off Invasion Panic. Being able to show in the Pathe News tanks being unloaded from ships coming back from France will also be useful as a propaganda measure.
Would the Heer be willing to risk the unmentionable sea mammal when they know that their opponent was able to get a lot of their heavy equipment out despite their best efforts?
Getting 51st Highland and 1st Armoured out intact is also going to be a major bonus as well.
Two Companies, with no support, no respite and no relief, holding off two Divisions and a Brigade, for six days?
That's the stuff of legend.
That's a long time to wait to be picked up, methinks there's been a slight error made.
They died with there boots on. It's a shame Kipling's dead because only a writer of his calibre could do them justice.
Yeah the fate of the 51st division and the 1st armored are rather pointless losses and barely remembered compared to otl since they were after dunkirk and everyone seemed to forget them.
Also i imagine the armored guys will go to the desert rather earlier and this alone might change things enough that maybe they dont do the greece adventure thanks to more success altough the main issue against italians before rommel arrived was more about logistics rather than fighting. But more reliable tanks should help rather alot hopefully.
Very nice updates . Sofar the main changes are abit more casualties but rather alot less prisoners maybe for the brits and more belgians and french evacuated.About 50k more at dunkirk and probably some from calais that werent done in otl . Also how many troops were evacuated from the dieppe pocket cause in otl they also did surrender allan?
Im pretty sure the evacuated troops didnt go to POW camps and they are a base to recruit further free french forces.
Also please try to handle the french navy surrender better than otl . Probably sending it to west indies seems most realistic option . This was probably the main complaint of vichy french against the brits wich was also very legitimate wich didnt help . Id rather conquer the vichy north africa earlier without american help maybe but dont know if enough drivers for change are there for this . Probably as a sort of response to barbarossa and rommel or someone else arrives with a divison in tunisia maybe to perserve otl outline?
Also i imagine the armored guys will go to the desert rather earlier and this alone might change things enough that maybe they dont do the greece adventure thanks to more success altough the main issue against italians before rommel arrived was more about logistics rather than fighting. But more reliable tanks should help rather alot hopefully.
Very nice updates . Sofar the main changes are abit more casualties but rather alot less prisoners maybe for the brits and more belgians and french evacuated.About 50k more at dunkirk and probably some from calais that werent done in otl . Also how many troops were evacuated from the dieppe pocket cause in otl they also did surrender allan?
Im pretty sure the evacuated troops didnt go to POW camps and they are a base to recruit further free french forces.
Also please try to handle the french navy surrender better than otl . Probably sending it to west indies seems most realistic option . This was probably the main complaint of vichy french against the brits wich was also very legitimate wich didnt help . Id rather conquer the vichy north africa earlier without american help maybe but dont know if enough drivers for change are there for this . Probably as a sort of response to barbarossa and rommel or someone else arrives with a divison in tunisia maybe to perserve otl outline?
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I might be wrong here but this means that there are now at least two extra formed Divisions in the British Army's OOB over historical.
With a lesser Invasion Scare the 1st Armoured could be sent to Egypt, or elsewhere, much earlier, as could the 51st Highland.
(Especially as there is now no need to to re-designate the 9th Highland Division)
With a lesser Invasion Scare the 1st Armoured could be sent to Egypt, or elsewhere, much earlier, as could the 51st Highland.
(Especially as there is now no need to to re-designate the 9th Highland Division)
Peg Leg....the picture on the right is from Sahara with Humphrey Bogart...the tank is a M-3 Lee/Grant...small detachment of just all the Allies holding onto a watering hole, even had a Senagelese Free Frenchman!!!
It makes a nice stand in for a French Char B1 Bis.
(Sub plot to explain what it's doing there)
Bogart's in the Legion but cut off from his unit. He commandeers it with a few misfits and fights on with the British in Calais.
(That still took some finding)
Derek Pullem
Donor
The post Dunkirk evacuations were significant. Between Le Havre, Cherbourg, Brest, St Nazaire and sundry other small ports the Royal Navy took almost 200,000 troops off and a large number of civilians. About 3/4 of the troops were British but there was a big contingent of Poles (their main training base was in Brittany). The big changes seem to be that the 51st Highland mostly escaped (as opposed to mostly captured) and the whole evacuation seems to have been slightly less frenetic and panicked so that more materiel was retrieved and less left behind undamaged for the Germans. That is going to hurt the German down the line as they were operating on wafer thin stocks already.
More equipment retrieved also means Britain's stocks are slightly less depleted.
3 examples are currently maintained at Bovington
2 Runners and a ex gunnery target (obviously in slightly worse condition)
Further orders would have to have been made 18 months or so earlier
OTL it was kept in production till Aug 1940 with the last order being Jan 39
With so much effort being made on the Valiant by Vickers (who made the Matilda I) I doubt there would be any more production on the A11 to be honest.
I ment what was evacuated from the dieppe pocket since in otl they surrendered was the question . Not the question about further evacuations from the south as in otl , dieppe is a timeline thing im pretty sure. 3 days of evacutions considering dunkirk scale of 10-20k people a day sounds like around 50000?
And as i said , 51st is deployable to i think compared to otl after they get replacement gear . The same for the remnants of the 1st armored divison as they could be sent as a seperate armored divison in a few months rather easily. Hell two armored divisons are a really terrible thing for the italians . Two armored divisons especially if one consists of valiants would be horrific to the germans aswell if otl german numbers are a thing and the brits for some reason dont abandon the north african campaign for greece. Maybe have greeks insist about the fact that they wanted atleast 100k troops cause otherwise it wouldnt be worth the hassle since it will invite a german invasion wich was a actualt argument greeks had in otl.
And as i said , 51st is deployable to i think compared to otl after they get replacement gear . The same for the remnants of the 1st armored divison as they could be sent as a seperate armored divison in a few months rather easily. Hell two armored divisons are a really terrible thing for the italians . Two armored divisons especially if one consists of valiants would be horrific to the germans aswell if otl german numbers are a thing and the brits for some reason dont abandon the north african campaign for greece. Maybe have greeks insist about the fact that they wanted atleast 100k troops cause otherwise it wouldnt be worth the hassle since it will invite a german invasion wich was a actualt argument greeks had in otl.
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