Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

Some ideas had more staying power than others. Armoured box hangers f.e. were based at least partially on the expectation that a strike wouldn't be seen long before it arrived, a situation that fell apart within a few years due to radar. Of course, a lot of things aged like milk in the late 30s.
 
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Of course, a lot of things aged like milk in the late 30s.
For example the Battle was a ground-breaking aircraft when designed, pretty good when it first flew (March 36), obsolescent when it entered service (June 27) and obsolete when war broke out (Sept 39). Was it an inherently flawed design? No, the technology just advanced quicker than was expected. The same can also be said for the Bristol Blenheim.
 
For example the Battle was a ground-breaking aircraft when designed, pretty good when it first flew (March 36), obsolescent when it entered service (June 27) and obsolete when war broke out (Sept 39). Was it an inherently flawed design? No, the technology just advanced quicker than was expected. The same can also be said for the Bristol Blenheim.
Almost every aircraft flying in 1935/6 was outdated by the time war broke out just a few years later.
 
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Almost every aircraft flying in 1935/6 was outdated by the time war broke out just a few years later.
Even the Stuka which was only any good with heavy fighter back up. When it didn't have that it tended to die very quickly with the result that most powers soon realised they could mount the same bomb load on a fighter and have a light strike capacity that didn't die if you looked at it sideways.
 
18 December 1941. Alor Star, Malaya
18 December 1941. Alor Star, Malaya

South of the River Kedar the 6th Brigade had been doing their best to hold up the Japanese advance, using the river to anchor their positions. The 2nd Bn, East Surrey Regiment had the role of rear-guard, as the Brigade withdrew through 15th Brigade at the next line of defence. As usual the withdrawal had discovered a roadblock set up by Japanese troops who had infiltrated around the edges of the battle. It was now so familiar a tactic, that the first unit to pull out always had one of the tanks to upend the Japanese force, and once the soldiers had been cleared, the infantry pushed the roadblock materials out of the way to prevent the tank throwing a track or being disabled if the Japanese had used landmines or explosives as part of their roadblock. Two Matilda IIs had been lost in this way, and they couldn’t afford to lose any more.
11th Indian Division now had two Squadrons of Matilda II tanks, the second squadron coming from the Australians who had their own M3 Stuart tanks. With thirty-two working Infantry Tanks, each brigade now had the resources to make sure the roads would stay open.

The East Surrey’s waited for the barrage from 155th Lanarkshire Yeomanry Field Regiment’s 4.5-inch guns that would cover their retreat. Unfortunately for the East Surrey’s, Japanese aircraft hit the gunners’ positions just when that timed barrage was due. Communications between the East Surrey’s Battalion HQ and the Brigade had been cut, and so the delay to the barrage wasn’t communicated to Lieutenant Colonel George Swinton. The plan had been when the barrage started that all units that had them would use smoke bombs to cover them as they pulled out. As time passed and the barrage didn’t happen, Swinton realised that something must have gone wrong, and gave orders for the smoke screen and for the Battalion to move by Companies down the road towards Gurun.

The problem with that order was that three of the Companies were in close proximity to the enemy, and neither B or D Companies received the order. As sections and platoons were being overrun, the Lieutenants and Captains began to try to save their men, but then fighting broke out where the Battalion Transport and RIASC lorries were waiting to carry the men. A large party of Japanese troops had managed to bypass the defenders and get in among the Motor Transport. Between the Carrier Platoon and the tank waiting to lead the Battalion south, along with the drivers fighting for their lives, the Japanese force was pushed back, but nearly all the lorries were either destroyed or damaged. As the East Surrey units arrived, it was clear that they would have to march to the next position. The tank radio was able to get through to the other tank with the rest of the Brigade and informed them of the situation.

The Japanese were harrying the British soldiers all the way, the wounded often having to be left by their mates, with the terrible expectation that they find no mercy from the Japanese. Some wounded men were loaded into the universal carriers of the Carrier platoon, and even on the back of the Matilda II tank. This became a death trap for them, as once again any Japanese soldier in range would shoot at the tank as it reversed up the road trying to cover the infantry as much as possible. Men of the 1st Bn 8th Punjab Regiment advanced up the road they had just recently retreated along, to try to support the East Surreys. Since the Motor Transport Company could only lift one Battalion at a time, and it had been destroyed, as many of the Battalion transport vehicles of the 15th Brigade that could be sent forward to hasten the retreat of the East Surreys arrived at the Punjab’s positions and carried the men back to their own lines.

By the time the survivors got back to friendly lines, sixteen officers, including the Battalion CO, and 169 NCOs and Other Ranks were missing, believed Killed In Action. When the rest of the Brigade had pulled out, Lt Col Swinton had sent much of the HQ and admin troops back, so that the four rifle companies, with the mortar and carrier platoons were all that had to use the RIASC Company. The plan had always been that this would be the last action for the Brigade, which would retire and regroup around Ipoh. When they reached there and were joined by the 1st Battalion, Leicestershire Regiment from 15th Brigade, which had also suffered many casualties in the following days, the two Battalions were merged and became known as the British Battalion.
 
No, but the Japanese can't keep this up forever.
As long as Britain doesn't drop any utter clankers (IE OTL) the Japanese could win every battle and still lose the war. We're nowhere near that here so I think while it will hurt British SE Asia will hold this time.

Sadly bleeding the IJA white probably won't end the war faster as that will require going after the home islands (probably by air again) which will first require completly annihilating the IJN which will be difficult to achieve until the new American fleet carriers are operational.
 
The British aren't always having it their own way, I see.
Many of the OTL clashes with the Japanese were like this but nearly always worse

With no tanks providing support and perhaps more importantly additional radio nets and roadblock busting abilities those OTL battles often ended in the given commonwealth Brigade being savaged, losing most of its M/T, artillery and heavier equipment and effectively being reduced to under strength very and very demoralised light infantry.

The additional support available to the commonwealth forces due to earlier successes in other theatres and of course the tanks are making the difference here

It will give Yamashita a real headache
 
As long as Britain doesn't drop any utter clankers (IE OTL) the Japanese could win every battle and still lose the war. We're nowhere near that here so I think while it will hurt British SE Asia will hold this time.

Sadly bleeding the IJA white probably won't end the war faster as that will require going after the home islands (probably by air again) which will first require completly annihilating the IJN which will be difficult to achieve until the new American fleet carriers are operational.
Not really, Britain could probably deal with the IJN without American assistance if they rolled a few 6's. Add in the American Carriers currently afloat and I put my money on the Allies every time.

Aircraft Carrier wise

Right now Britain has
HMS Argus, HMS Eagle and HMS Hermes. All not really fit for front line combat but useful in secondary theatres.

HMS Furious, HMS Ark Royal (not sunk ITTL), HMS Illustrious (possibly a little banged up) HMS Formidable (see Illustrious) HMS Victorious, HMS Indomitable

That is 6 front line carriers available to Britain. Now I admit at most only 4 will realistically be freed up to go to the Far East at any one time. In addition 2 are possibly not fit for service for another month or so but even then by February Britain could well have a very powerful fleet in the Far East. I suspect it could actually be sooner as the situation the led to the Damage to Formidable was butterflied for the most part which means no post repair damage to Illustrious. That gives the possibility that they have Ark Royal, Illustrious, Indomitable and Formidable either in the Far East or on the way. Now add a couple of the US carriers to that force and you have a very powerful fleet.
Just need to bait out the IJN and instead of Coral Sea and the Indian Ocean Raid you have Midway several months earlier.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
The great advantage that the Japanese had IOTL, was their ability to cause panic and confusion amongst the British forces. Yes they are on occasion taking a high toll of the British forces facing them, but they are failing to panic or to any great extent cause confusion. What we have seen to date, is the Japanese enjoying some success, though at a much higher cost, than they suffered IOTL. They haven’t as they did IOTL, managed to get inside the British C3 loop, and as ever day passes, their chances of doing so diminish. Have the British learned yet how to deal with the Japanese tactics of looping around the British forces, and establishing a road blockade, no. Unlike the British forces in Burma in 1944, the British as yet have not got the skills to intersect the Japanese hook, or the logistics and air transport to allow their forces to remain in place. However they are at some cost able to break the road blockade and extract their forces and some equipment. And while the British are retiring to prepared positions, note the British don’t retreat, they retire, and are able to relieve the forces that have been in action. They are slowly being pushed back, and it’s going to be some time before they are able to make a stand, and eventually make a limited counter attack. But when they do it we be the end of any Japanese hope of capturing Malaya. And this is one of the major advantages that the British have over the Japanese, the ability to refresh and replace their forces, as they become worn out and lost troops. Where the Japanese are going to stuck with repeated sending the same men into action, time after time. And given the total lack of any true support services that the Japanese provided, I doubt that any but a few of the Japanese wounded, will be returned to service. And this will be the biggest problem for the Japanese, while the British will be getting stronger and stronger, the Japanese will only be getting weaker and weaker. Yes the for the remainder of 1942, the British will be on the back foot, but come 1943 the British will be able to go on the offensive. Not from Burma given the infrastructure problems, but with an open sea flank Thailand and FIC, will be subjected to ever increasing pressure.

RR.
 
Based on the IJA doing the same move each time, how long before the British start putting a group hidden in place to deal with that blocking force?

I can just see the army memo heading back to UK shouting for more tanks and asking where the hell is the RAF?

For the the length of the war in the east, that demends on how much oil they capture, not much if burma and Sumtra hold and the subs go for borneo.
 
asking where the hell is the RAF?
Busy repairing Gloster Gladiators and Hawker Hind's to send to the Far East. "Don't worry that they're Biplanes old boy. They're more than good enough to deal with the fourth rate knock offs made of balsa and rice paper the Japanese are using".

Says Air Vice Marshall Ivor Huge-Mustache A.O.C RAF Bigot Command Far East Section. (Who's never been further east than the West End of London). He's also a good friend of the traitor Lord Sempill.
 
Not really, Britain could probably deal with the IJN without American assistance if they rolled a few 6's. Add in the American Carriers currently afloat and I put my money on the Allies every time.

Aircraft Carrier wise

Right now Britain has
HMS Argus, HMS Eagle and HMS Hermes. All not really fit for front line combat but useful in secondary theatres.

HMS Furious, HMS Ark Royal (not sunk ITTL), HMS Illustrious (possibly a little banged up) HMS Formidable (see Illustrious) HMS Victorious, HMS Indomitable

That is 6 front line carriers available to Britain. Now I admit at most only 4 will realistically be freed up to go to the Far East at any one time. In addition 2 are possibly not fit for service for another month or so but even then by February Britain could well have a very powerful fleet in the Far East. I suspect it could actually be sooner as the situation the led to the Damage to Formidable was butterflied for the most part which means no post repair damage to Illustrious. That gives the possibility that they have Ark Royal, Illustrious, Indomitable and Formidable either in the Far East or on the way. Now add a couple of the US carriers to that force and you have a very powerful fleet.
Just need to bait out the IJN and instead of Coral Sea and the Indian Ocean Raid you have Midway several months earlier.

One issue is the Japanese carriers actually carry a fair few more planes then the RN carriers. (The RN could carry more, but doctrinally they refuse to use things like deck parks at this point in time which the IJN and USN do use, which allowed them to carry more aircraft. When the RN switched to using them later on they added about 50% to the capacity of each carrier.) Throw in their increased experience with multiple-carrier operations...
 
Although I like a spirited description of massive naval battles complete with screaching dive bombers and torpedo bombers crashing into the sea, I suspect that won't be the case in this. Not least because it'd about tanks! Should the UK and Commonwealth hold somewhere in Malaya as currently looks likely, then it's only a matter of time before they start to push the Japanese back out of Malaya and into Siam and possibly even further. All this can be done with land based air power. The open sea flank can be protected by land based air and also any amphibious adventures by the British can also be protected by land based air. If that's the case why do the British ITTL need to deploy carriers (apart from the rule of cool of course) at all?

Ok I concede that carriers might be usef until the DEI is reinforced properly including by the RAF with land based air.
 
...It will give Yamashita a real headache
We still don't know what the Imperial Japanese objectives are in this timeline, and how their operations and goals differ from the original timeline.
They knew the British were getting reinforcements and tanks in Malaya in this time and can possibly expect more with North Africa finished for now. The Imperial Japanese aims may be 'get airfields in range of Singapore, and bomb the British into stalemate/submission.'
 
One issue is the Japanese carriers actually carry a fair few more planes then the RN carriers. (The RN could carry more, but doctrinally they refuse to use things like deck parks at this point in time which the IJN and USN do use, which allowed them to carry more aircraft. When the RN switched to using them later on they added about 50% to the capacity of each carrier.) Throw in their increased experience with multiple-carrier operations...
On deck parks, that is total BS. Ark Royal, the only RN carrier built when Japan was seen as the main Naval threat, was designed to use one. You seem think ETO operations where deck parks were not seen as viable (weather or operating too close to enemy land bases) and PTO operations where they were used, had to follow the same rules. They did not, the RN did know the conditions were not the same and cut its cloth accordingly.
 
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