Submarines did do some limited fuel supply runs to Malta so it was possible. The quantities you could carry, especially over distances such as Singapore to the Phillipines are however questionable.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
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As noted, the Porpoise class can carry ~24 tonnes without its torpedoes, while many later submarines (the Salmon, Sargo, Tambor and Gato classes) can carry ~36 tonnes. That should be enough to provide basic rations to thousands of men. On the return journey, walking wounded can be carried instead.
24-36 tonnes per submarine on perhaps a 12-13 day round trip.
Its more a morale thing, you are not alone, and a way of getting key personnel you don't want captured out. Its also a use for Surcouf which might manage 300t a trip
Submarines can't supply the Phillipines anymore than that the Luftwaffe could supply the 6th army at Stalingrad. They can however bring high value /low mass items, like malaria medicines / mosquitto netting / very high calory foodstuff / spare parts for critcal systems like radio / radar etc. On the return trip they can take out wounded and other critical personel (intelligence officers etc) that can't be let captured alive by the Japanese.
There is also the question of what supplies are available in Singapore to send and what is any use to US troops. Ammunition will be incompatible as will most spare parts. Food could be shipped but only at the cost of weakening Singapores chances in a siege. Same for other high value items, did Singapore have any to spare?
Long term the US could ship to Singapore and then by submarine. But that's several weeks, more likely months, till that supply line gets established and that may be too late.
Mark1878
Donor
The thread Keynes Cruisers includes using submarines to partially resupply Bataan.
There are discussions as to what they can carry.
Wouldn't it be a more effective use of said submarines to sink Japanese surface logistics ?
24 tonnes in or a few hundered minimum deprived from Japanese effort.... seems to be a logical way to go.
Also wounded and high value individuals can still be evacuated at the end of the war cruise .
24 tonnes in or a few hundered minimum deprived from Japanese effort.... seems to be a logical way to go.
Also wounded and high value individuals can still be evacuated at the end of the war cruise .
The RN used minelaying submarines to run supplies into Malta when they could. They not only carried more cargo but it was easier and quicker to load and unload them. That's an important consideration when the enemy could appear overhead at any minute.
Even so they only carried a fraction of the cargo of even a small freighter. Although the greater chance of not being sunk makes up for that. 😋
If British submarines are used to supply the Philippines it will be a political decision to keep the Americans happy. It is a waste of resources that would be better used attacking Japanese logistics.
So when MacArthur gets ordered out he goes on a British sub and ends up in Singapore?
LOL I would pay to see that!
Stupid bastard being rescued by a British Sub then bitching all the way to Singapore and trying to exert some influence when he gets there on planning too.
He'd be on the slowest, leakiest ship headed to Cape Town within the weak. Even if the M.P's have to "escort" him to the ship. (oh and its radio doesn't work whenever he demands to use it). His family meanwhile is put up in Raffles until places are available on a flight to Perth or Ceylon.
24 tonnes is not a lot.
24 tons = 48,000 pounds
Let's assume that anything that is getting shipped is 25% packaging
36,000 pounds of throughput is about 3,000 75mm shells (including propellant) OR ~36,000 men/day worth of food OR ~100,000 .50 caliber rounds in ammo boxes
Now a quartermaster will never sneeze at an infusion of supplies. But a submarine squadron (8-10 boats) can't keep a reinforced army corps in supply with high volume consumables. Instead, they can deliver low weight and low volume critical spare parts, and supplement any other sources of supply.
If Bataan is to be supplied it has to be by surface ships.
I could see the sparkies deliberately breaking the damned thing by removing some components as well too and of he pisses of the engineers they will get creative.
Adding to this slightly bringing in heavy stuff could also effect the subs performance as well remember they are a lot smaller than what we think of now and mainly travelled on the surface only submerging for action.
So stability is going to be a constant bur in the back of the captains mind.
Looking at the British tanks, I think the closest real world equivalent to the Victor or the Valiant II would probably be the Excelsior, that was a heavily armoured and pretty well armed design. Obviously there's differences but the roles similar. The Victor of course will have the bigger gun.