Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

13 June 1941. Operation Battleaxe. Day 6.
Continuation of the thread Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

13 June 1941. Operation Battleaxe. Day 6.

During the policing of the battlefield the previous day the men of 7th Tank Brigade were keen on discovering what it was that had killed so many of their tanks from long range. The discovery of four 88mm Flak guns, well emplaced, and with lots of empty ammunition cases all around were found to be at least part of the cause. One of the guns was mostly intact, it looked as if the crew had been killed by a shrapnel blast, which had also damaged the gun, but not as completely as the other three. They also discovered an anti-tank gun which they had been previously ignorant of. From the intelligence gathered it was called 5 cm Pak 38 (L/60), and seemed to have only recently become operational. The recovery of the 88mm Flak and Pak 38 were something of an intelligence coup, and the guns were salvaged along with their ammunition. At some point they would be tested to see just how dangerous they were, and what kind of armour, and tactics, British tank formations would need to defeat them.

The Australian 9th Division were arriving and keen to get into the fight. Major-Generals Morshead and Creagh (7th Armoured Division) were keen on joint exercises to hone the skills of infantry and tank cooperation. Many of the men involved in Operation Compass still had many of those skills, but it was important to sharpen them again. The last full Brigade of Australians was due to arrive the next day, and so Lieutenant General O’Connor was expecting that the next phase of the exercise would begin on 16 June at the latest. The fact that there had been no enemy contacts west of Wadi Harawah until the approaches to Sirte meant that it was important to keep up the pressure as soon as possible. Other than Luftwaffe interference, the British had been able to reorganise and bring up enough supplies to make the push to Sirte possible.

Once again, the Royal Navy had been an enormous support. The Inshore Squadron had been escorting the coastal vessels to Ras El Ali, and during the night two vessels had arrived at Nofilia to unload directly onto the beach with lighters. The strength of the anti-aircraft forces around Nofilia had prevented the two coasters damage being too dangerous. The RAF fighter squadrons were still not fully able to provide overhead cover, but once their new fields were established in the vicinity of Ras El Ali that would change.

The significance of Nofilia was the water well in Wadi Umm al Jirfan. This had been examined by Royal Engineers and cleared for use. Having a source of water meant that some of the problems of having to transport large quantities of it over land or sea was mitigated. The immediate effect was that it was possible for the rest of 4th Indian Division to move forward to Wadi Harawah to re-join 11th Indian Brigade.

Captured Italian maps and papers had been carefully examined, as the British had very little information about this part of Libya. XIII Corps staff were doing the calculations necessary to organise the push onto Sirte and what would be necessary. The build up of supplies at Ras El Ali had presumed that the Corps would need at least two weeks of all supplies to complete the move to and capture of Sirte. As this was now day six, General O’Connor didn’t want to delay too long.

The fact that the army was now in a strong position at Wadi Harawah, forty miles further towards Sirte, meant that Field Supply Depots would be established closer to Harawah than Nofilia. The RASC were keen on finding as much of Trento Divisions motor transport as possible. Having the extra vehicles would help replace some of the British lorries and trucks that were, as usual wearing out fast. One of the things that surprised them was that a number of the trucks used by the Germans were made in Britain. On examination they were found to have been left behind in France in 1940. Despite orders for all vehicles to be destroyed or made immobile, obviously some hadn’t been too successful at carrying out the order. Once the German markings were removed, they were back in the British army.
 
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So now that they've got confirmation of the Germans using the Flak 36 as an Anti-Tank gun, it's likely going to lead to a review of the armour protection on the current tank designs and those on the drawing board.
 
So now that they've got confirmation of the Germans using the Flak 36 as an Anti-Tank gun, it's likely going to lead to a review of the armour protection on the current tank designs and those on the drawing board.
As well as reinforcing the need for a tank with a decent HE round.
 
Ah, so there is a page limit to threads! I always suspected but hadn't read a thread that reached it (yes, yes, I'm a filthy casual what else is new).

Best of luck filling another 500 pages of arguing over tank memes!
 
Battleaxe1.gif

I found this map from 1910 which marks a caravan route (dotted red lines) which would give a specific route for 7th Armoured and 4th Indian Division to follow.
Allan
 
First, well done allanpcameron on Part 2.

Second,use of the 88 shouldn't be a surprise, though this could be the first confirmation it was being used as an AT gun.
The 88 (like the Soviet 85) was designed as a dual purpose gun, and had been used to shoot at ground targets including tanks in Spain. That was, I believe, mainly from having an accurate long range gun with few aircraft to shoot at and was mainly as a useful field artillery piece. An 88mm HE shell will make a mess of almost all 1930s tanks so it would have been effective as AT gun even without AP rounds.
I'm not sure when AP rounds were introduced for the 88 so if anyone knows, please share.
 
It was designated as PzGr. 39, which indicates it would have been in service by the Battle of France, especially since it was superseded by the improved tungsten cored PzGr. 40 .
 
Continuation of the thread Sir John Valentine Carden survives.

13 June 1941. Operation Battleaxe. Day 6.

The fact that the army was now in a strong position at Wadi Harawah, forty miles further towards Sirte, meant that Field Supply Depots would be established closer to Harawah than Nofilia. The RASC were keen on finding as much of Trento Divisions motor transport as possible. Having the extra vehicles would help replace some of the British lorries and trucks that were, as usual wearing out fast. One of the things that surprised them was that a number of the trucks used by the Germans were made in Britain. On examination they were found to have been left behind in France in 1940. Despite orders for all vehicles to be destroyed or made immobile, obviously some hadn’t been too successful at carrying out the order. Once the German markings were removed, they were back in the British army.
Well: at least they captured some transport they should be able to get spare parts for. (The former British lorries from France.)

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And congratulations on making it to Thread 2. :)
 
Ah, so there is a page limit to threads! I always suspected but hadn't read a thread that reached it (yes, yes, I'm a filthy casual what else is new).

Best of luck filling another 500 pages of arguing over tank memes!
Well the thread limit is a bit recent I think the last one I saw that was over 500 pages was the Whale has Wings
 
The thread is dead, long live thread 2!

I found this map from 1910 which marks a caravan route (dotted red lines) which would give a specific route for 7th Armoured and 4th Indian Division to follow.
Allan
Holy shit, that’s one hell of a flanking manoeuvre! I didn’t realise just how far inland 7th Armd and 4th Indian were going until now.
 
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