Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
But tank MG's don't need as high a rate of fire. I don't have any issue with the BESA, but they probably could have replaced the Vickers with a .303 Colt-Browning restricted to something like 5-600rpm? And belt feed may be better than drums inside a tank?
www.alternatehistory.com
There was a problem, but not as bad as IOTL
The railways were run into the ground on at least some counts in the original timeline. Wartime build locomotives such as the 'Austerity' class with critical design flaws in areas such as the firebox did not help. https://www.lner.info/locos/O/o7.php
Plus throw in manpower shortages due to casualties, industries having had to be shut down during wartime to try and make what manpower there was go further (close UK iron works and import ready forged iron from the USA instead, for example), and the horrific merchant shipping losses.
There were reasons why rationing in the UK in the original timeline went on well into the 1950's, and not everything could be blamed on bad weather.
allanpcameron
Donor
31 December 1941. Dhond. India.
allanpcameron
Donor
31 December 1941. Dhond. India.
Trooper Jack Marrisan was a long way from Sheffield. As the year was ending, he couldn’t help think back to all he’d been through since the war started. As a drop stamper on the drop hammer in a foundry, Marrison was in a reserved occupation, something that prevented him joining up. He had gone to Rotherham and lied about his job which meant that he joined the 10th Battalion The York and Lancaster Regiment (10 Y&LR). After initial training had taken him to defend the beaches near Clacton.
Looking at a picture of his wife and two children, he went back to that night in December 1940 when his family had to be dug out of a cellar after nine hours of being trapped following an air raid. He could still picture the look on the MP’s face who tried to tell him to board the train while saying goodbye to his wife on the platform of Sheffield Station. Jack had left him in no doubt what would happen to them should he and his sidekick disturb him again. He completed his goodbyes and boarded the train. The fact it had been a year since he’d seen his wife and children, he couldn’t help wonder when he would see them again. The last letter he’d received had come before the news that Sheffield had been bombed again, and he was constantly looking to see when the next delivery of mail was come.
Training continued all through the first six months of 1941, until the infantry battalions of 207th Infantry Brigade (9th Bn Duke of Wellington Regiment (9 DWR), 7th Bn Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (7 KOYLI), 10 Y&LR) were chosen to be transformed into Royal Armoured Corps regiments (146th, 149th and 150th RAC). They had boarded convoy WS11 in August and had arrived in Bombay in October where they were to be formed into the Indian Army’s 50th Tank Brigade.
Trooper Jack Marrisan had been undergoing training as a tank driver, his pal from Sheffield, Corporal Harry Donohue, was the gunner. Trooper Charlie Hopkins was the loader and the tank commander was Lieutenant Robert Wait. The convoy had brought the three newly created RAC regiments and their Valiant I tanks. Marrison didn’t realise that he and his mates had originally been scheduled to go to Persia after training in India. But with the Japanese in Malaya it looked like they’d be sent to Malaya or there were rumours of being needed in Burma.
The delivery of the Grant tanks from America, that the Indian Armoured formations were to be equipped with, were still months away. The Australians were getting the first lot, then the Indians would get theirs. The 50th Tank Brigade was currently the only infantry tank force in India. General Auchinleck wanted them fully trained and ready for action by April at the latest. They were expecting the arrival in January of the Officers and Other Ranks who’d been sent on courses when the decision to turn the Brigade into a Royal Armoured Corps formation had been taken. Once these men were back, it was expected that the training intensity would be much greater.
Marrison had been talking to some of the Royal Tank Regiment men who’d transferred to 150th RAC to help with the transformation. It was their considered opinion that it would take about eight months to be fully trained. Not only had the men to learn their jobs and how to maintain the tanks. Then they’d have to learn how to fight a tank as part of a troop, of a squadron, of a Regiment, of a Brigade. Then they’d have to train on how to cooperate with infantry, artillery and even the RAF. They’d probably need jungle warfare training, so it wasn’t something that could be done quickly. If they were going to be of any use to anybody, there would be no point throwing them untrained into battle, it would just be throwing them away. Auchinleck’s hope to have them ready in eight months was starting from mid-summer in England. It didn’t account for all the time spent at sea or anything else. Realistically, it would be July at the earliest they could be declared operational.
For OTL Jack Marrison on whom this is based is found here. I hadn't realised that these three RAC regiments had shipped out to India on WS 11, the difference here is that they came fully equipped with tanks, while OTL they only had some Valentines to train on.
Trooper Jack Marrisan was a long way from Sheffield. As the year was ending, he couldn’t help think back to all he’d been through since the war started. As a drop stamper on the drop hammer in a foundry, Marrison was in a reserved occupation, something that prevented him joining up. He had gone to Rotherham and lied about his job which meant that he joined the 10th Battalion The York and Lancaster Regiment (10 Y&LR). After initial training had taken him to defend the beaches near Clacton.
Looking at a picture of his wife and two children, he went back to that night in December 1940 when his family had to be dug out of a cellar after nine hours of being trapped following an air raid. He could still picture the look on the MP’s face who tried to tell him to board the train while saying goodbye to his wife on the platform of Sheffield Station. Jack had left him in no doubt what would happen to them should he and his sidekick disturb him again. He completed his goodbyes and boarded the train. The fact it had been a year since he’d seen his wife and children, he couldn’t help wonder when he would see them again. The last letter he’d received had come before the news that Sheffield had been bombed again, and he was constantly looking to see when the next delivery of mail was come.
Training continued all through the first six months of 1941, until the infantry battalions of 207th Infantry Brigade (9th Bn Duke of Wellington Regiment (9 DWR), 7th Bn Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (7 KOYLI), 10 Y&LR) were chosen to be transformed into Royal Armoured Corps regiments (146th, 149th and 150th RAC). They had boarded convoy WS11 in August and had arrived in Bombay in October where they were to be formed into the Indian Army’s 50th Tank Brigade.
Trooper Jack Marrisan had been undergoing training as a tank driver, his pal from Sheffield, Corporal Harry Donohue, was the gunner. Trooper Charlie Hopkins was the loader and the tank commander was Lieutenant Robert Wait. The convoy had brought the three newly created RAC regiments and their Valiant I tanks. Marrison didn’t realise that he and his mates had originally been scheduled to go to Persia after training in India. But with the Japanese in Malaya it looked like they’d be sent to Malaya or there were rumours of being needed in Burma.
The delivery of the Grant tanks from America, that the Indian Armoured formations were to be equipped with, were still months away. The Australians were getting the first lot, then the Indians would get theirs. The 50th Tank Brigade was currently the only infantry tank force in India. General Auchinleck wanted them fully trained and ready for action by April at the latest. They were expecting the arrival in January of the Officers and Other Ranks who’d been sent on courses when the decision to turn the Brigade into a Royal Armoured Corps formation had been taken. Once these men were back, it was expected that the training intensity would be much greater.
Marrison had been talking to some of the Royal Tank Regiment men who’d transferred to 150th RAC to help with the transformation. It was their considered opinion that it would take about eight months to be fully trained. Not only had the men to learn their jobs and how to maintain the tanks. Then they’d have to learn how to fight a tank as part of a troop, of a squadron, of a Regiment, of a Brigade. Then they’d have to train on how to cooperate with infantry, artillery and even the RAF. They’d probably need jungle warfare training, so it wasn’t something that could be done quickly. If they were going to be of any use to anybody, there would be no point throwing them untrained into battle, it would just be throwing them away. Auchinleck’s hope to have them ready in eight months was starting from mid-summer in England. It didn’t account for all the time spent at sea or anything else. Realistically, it would be July at the earliest they could be declared operational.
For OTL Jack Marrison on whom this is based is found here. I hadn't realised that these three RAC regiments had shipped out to India on WS 11, the difference here is that they came fully equipped with tanks, while OTL they only had some Valentines to train on.
For Burma anything later than April is likely useless given the very heavy rains from May to Nov 1942 rendering the roads virtually impassable and effectively ending large scale combat.
However if Rangoon and surrounding area is still tenable (ie the Japanese have not crossed the Sittang River) and in British Imperial hands then those units will certainly be useful if they are in place and inserted into the various Burma corps that will likely be in the region.
However if Rangoon and surrounding area is still tenable (ie the Japanese have not crossed the Sittang River) and in British Imperial hands then those units will certainly be useful if they are in place and inserted into the various Burma corps that will likely be in the region.
Japan has had to pull the best of its units out of the initial force, while Britain has far more troops in the area than OTL. I think there's a strong possibility of them holding.
I thought Michael Gambier-Parry was CO of the 2nd Armoured Division?
allanpcameron
Donor
Interesting, had to go back over stuff to see what I had done with him. Yes, he was GOC 2nd Armoured: (1st Armoured Brigade & Support Group which was sent to Greece, and 22nd Armoured Brigade. During TTL Battleaxe he commanded 22nd Armoured Division (which here was the first 'Mixed Division'.) When 2nd Armoured Division was reconstituted (1st A Bde re-equipped with Valiants and 22nd A Bde) it was given to Charrington, who'd commanded the tanks in Greece. 2nd Armoured Division is now under Vyvyan Pope's XXX Corps. I haven't mentioned what happened to G-P, I thought I had, but I can't see it in my Word document. I had it in my head that he went to either 8th Army or 10th Army as Advisor Armoured Fighting Vehicles.
Will this lead to a Collab with JeanDeBueil? Two of our top writers for sure. The only problem is as Allan keeps on writing so well it reminds me Zheng He’s excellent Alternate ‘42 Indian Ocean
Not in the last two years AFAIK. Unfortunately, I suspect he's shuffled off his mortal coil.
I'm afraid that he hasn't been seen on the site since September 2020, so I too fear the worst.
I asked the admins (who did not know) and saw some posts something to do with a grandson that he had to look after.
Hopefully it’s that.
marathag
Banned
Another thing I like to bag on US Ordnance, yet another one of their screwups, as the Italians were able to do so, with the Browning adjacent Breda-SAFAT that had a HEI-T for their 12.7x81SR ammo, and this was also done in Japan, with their 12.7mm Browning based MG, that had an even better HEI round.