Singapore holds?

Hyperion

Banned
As for Indom being present, I have to wonder how you avoid her grounding... And was her air group worked up yet? IIRC, that was in progress, & why she gounded.:eek:

If it was poor information, ie outdated navigation charts, may not be able to do anything about that .

OTOH, if it was human error, perhaps a better trained bridge crew around the time the ship ran aground might be able to prevent the accident.
 

Hoist40

Banned
As for Indom being present, I have to wonder how you avoid her grounding... And was her air group worked up yet? IIRC, that was in progress, & why she gounded.:eek:

)

Actually Indomitable running aground did not change much, she was never going to arrive in the Far East even if she had not run aground until after POW and Repluse were sunk.
 
If it was poor information, ie outdated navigation charts, may not be able to do anything about that .

OTOH, if it was human error, perhaps a better trained bridge crew around the time the ship ran aground might be able to prevent the accident.
IDK which it was.:eek: If human error (a credible possibility), possibly avoidable. However...
Actually Indomitable running aground did not change much, she was never going to arrive in the Far East.
I couldn't say. I only mention it since somebody else offered her, & she's been suggested as intended to be present.
 
The PoW left Britain for Singapore on October 25, the Repulse was already in the Indan Ocean. Presumably the Indomitable would have met up with PoW somewhere in the Atlantic and they would have arrived together.
 
Turns out that Indomitable was never going to make it on time. Even without the grounding she wasn't due to finish working up her airgroup until November 22, which doesn't leave enough time to get from the Carribean to Singapore by December 10.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Turns out that Indomitable was never going to make it on time. Even without the grounding she wasn't due to finish working up her airgroup until November 22, which doesn't leave enough time to get from the Carribean to Singapore by December 10.

If the folks in London realize they're not going to have an aircraft carrier available, what's to say that someone might suggest delaying the deployment of Force Z, or at least change the orders.

Have the ships lay over in South Africa a few more days or whatever, and possibly wait for the HMS Hermes to be ready to sail.

That, or perhaps realize that the two battleships themselves aren't going to be enough to stop the Japanese on their own with next to no support forces readily available, and instead of sending them to Singapore, have them stop over in Ceylon or Addu Atoll and use them to start building up the fleet in the Indian Ocean sooner.

They might be of more use as part of a fleet in being than anything else, and given the size of the fleet Britain was able to assemble in early 1942, adding these two ships would actually be a massive force increase.
 
Only Churchill and/or the Admiralty could have made Phillips, or any other RN Admiral in that situation for that matter, not go north but they 'slept on it' and off he went. I assume they didn't think the war would start quite so soon and the Indomitable would have arrived in time, but when it did Phillips superiors didn't give him firm direction as to what they wanted.

That said Phillips fucked up his mission very badly and lost his life and command as a result.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Only Churchill and/or the Admiralty could have made Phillips, or any other RN Admiral in that situation for that matter, not go north but they 'slept on it' and off he went. I assume they didn't think the war would start quite so soon and the Indomitable would have arrived in time, but when it did Phillips superiors didn't give him firm direction as to what they wanted.

That said Phillips fucked up his mission very badly and lost his life and command as a result.

So have Churchill and/or the Admiralty give Phillips different orders when they realize the situation, or have Phillips personally realize that his forces might be in over their heads decide descretion is the better part of valor and fall back to the Indian Ocean or south to join up with the ABDA forces.

Either of those options gives him a better chance compared to OTL.
 
I don't think Phillips or any other RN Admiral in the circumstances would have disappeared without being expressly ordered to, which was Churchill's or the Admiralty's job. A job they delayed doing.
 
Top