Silent Victory Rebooted

Bearcat

Banned
Don't forget that Hornet is working up in LANTFLT, as is Wasp. They should be available by March or April, depending on how their OTL missions are tasked (Hornet for the Doolittle Raid, Wasp for two ferry missions to Malta). Once Hawaii gets its Army and Marine air reinforcement, getting a squadron of F4Fs (VMF-223 from the West Coast, perhaps), and/or an Army P-40 squadron, will be a priority, as would be Marine SBDs for scouting and anti-ship work. Getting the survivors of -211 and -221 off the island for rest and reequipment would also be at the top of Nimitz's list. Not to mention some PBYs for long-range patrol. And perhaps staging some of Hickam's B-17s for strikes on the Marshalls as well. (unless they're being sent to Australia and the NEI)

PBYs are doable fairly quickly. Only concern is supporting them - probably another transport or two worth of fuel, gear, spares, etc. is needed soon too. SBDs probably later in the spring?

Fighters are critical and will be expedited somehow. There are a few F4Fs at Pearl but most of those are going to be needed for Sara, which was light on fighters during this time.

Yorktown is already on its way to the Pacific and may be stopping in San Diego. ;) I'm guessing Hornet will be going to the Pacific soon as well. Wasp may stay with Ranger for Mediterranean errands a bit longer.

Yorktown will also be bringing one more butterfly / surprise... ;) :cool:

Not sure Wake can handle B-17s for a while - the runway needs to be lengthened and improved. Probably late '42 or into '43 I'd guess.
 
Wake actually handled B-17s in the prewar days: all of FEAF's B-17 force in the Philippines on Day one flew to the Philippines via Wake, Howland, and then Samoa and New Guinea (Lae). And the airfield project involved three runways, not just the one that was operational during the siege.
 

Hyperion

Banned
While a full scale bombing mission from Wake might not be possible for a while, unless they load up at Pearl or Midway, and simply use Wake to refuel, might it be possible to use PBY's B-17s or some other appropriate aircraft to do a little bit or recon gathering in the Marshalls?

As this area would likely be one of the first places that US carriers could do some hit and run attacks, it might not be a bad idea to get a little bit of info prior to them going in.

One thing I'm wondering about Hornet. I don't see the Doolittle raid being needed here as much. In OTL, that struck me as partly political, and partly a moral booster when the allies didn't have much going for them at all.

Here, with success at Wake and a few other one off achievements, ie sinking Ryujo, the US and the Navy in particular might not feel the need to conduct such a risky mission.

Likewise, the loss of Lexington might temper US plans in some areas.

Also, as US subs are doing somewhat better, there's no telling really what other one off succcess stories they might get.
 
?Did the US have subs operating in the Atlantic during WW2? If all the Atlantic subs are sent west, along with the good Torps, whe may see the DEI not fall.
 
?Did the US have subs operating in the Atlantic during WW2? If all the Atlantic subs are sent west, along with the good Torps, whe may see the DEI not fall.

Besides the O, R, & S boats, as well as the Mackerel & Marlin used for local defense and training (later supplanted by older fleet boats withdrawn from front-line service in the Pacific), several fleet boats (early Gatos, IIRC) conducted offensive patrols from bases in Scotland in the eastern Atlantic starting in mid-1942 hunting Axis shipping (including blockade runners), conducting reconnaissance, and trying to interdict U-Boats in the GIUK gap, the Bay of Biscay, and off French North Africa in support of Operation Torch. The Atlantic operations wern't particularly successful, only sinking a handful of Axis ships, before being cancelled and the subs reassigned to the Pacific in mid-1943, because of a lack of targets and a belief that the subs were too large to operate in areas where Axis shipping could be found in the Atlantic.
 

Bearcat

Banned
1942


January 1942


Thursday, January 1, 1942

General
President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill sign the Joint Declaration of the United Nations; only the United States and Britain had discussed the document's creation, but ultimately representatives of 24 other nations, including the Soviet Union and China, will affix their signatures to it. There will be no separate peace agreements; the signatories pledge to fight until the Axis is defeated.


Pacific

Cued by ground radar, Japanese raid by 24 G4M bombers against Wake is intercepted successfully by 2 F4Fs and 2 F2As. Three Japanese Betty bombers are shot down.

Admiral Thomas C. Hart (Commander in Chief, Asiatic Fleet) arrives in Surabaya, Java, N.E.I., after his passage from Manila, P.I., in submarine Shark (SS-174).


Unarmed U.S. freighter Malama, en route from Honolulu to Manila, is bombed and sunk by floatplane from Japanese armed merchant cruiser Aikoku Maru at 26°21'N, 153°24'W. Aikoku Maru takes the 35-man crew and the 8 passengers prisoner.

Japanese army cargo ship Teiun Maru (ex-German Bremerhaven) is sunk by mine (U.S. or Japanese) off mouth of Lingayen Gulf, Luzon, 16°05'N, 120°20'E.
Japanese oiler Toen Maru is damaged by mine southwest of Hong Kong, B.C.C.

Atlantic
Admiral Royal E. Ingersoll succeeds Admiral Ernest J. King as Commander in Chief Atlantic Fleet.


Friday, January 2

Pacific
Manila and Cavite, P.I., fall to the Japanese.


First patrol squadron (VP-11) becomes operational at Wake Island, with 12 PBYs, ferried from San Diego to Pearl Harbor, then via Midway to Wake. Patrols commence the following morning.

Two more Betty bombers are shot down over Wake Island. Local Japanese commanders in the Marshalls recognize the unpleasant trend, and begin to be uneasy about their mounting losses over the island.

Submarine Plunger (SS-179), operating off Japan, receives a vicious depth charging from Japanese destroyer Hokaze. Plunger responds with a single Mark 18 homing torpedo, which hits and badly damages Hokaze. The destroyer will be laid up at Kure for five months for extensive repairs.

Saturday, January 3

Pacific
Japanese collier Moji Maru is sunk by mine southwest of Hong Kong, B.C.C.


Japanese merchant cargo ship Meiko Maru is sunk by accidental gasoline explosion off Hainan Island, 15°01'N, 112°48'E.

Tangier (AV-8) and Vega (AK-17) are dispatched to Wake Island with more equipment and men for the Marine garrison there, including elements of the Third Marine Defense Battalion. The transports are escorted by the destroyers Worden, Dale, Monaghan and Aylwin. Distant cover is provided by Saratoga (CV-3), which will also fly off six F4F fighters from Hawaii, the only possible reinforcements for VMF-211 at this time.

Atlantic
Critical fuel states in the "shortlegged" flush-deck destroyers in the screen of convoy HX 167 prompts the adoption of the expedient of cargo ship Delta (AK-29) fueling destroyers Babbitt (DD-128) and Schenck (DD-159). Weather again worsens, however, preventing Leary (DD-158) from fueling; she is sent to Casco Bay to refuel.


Light cruiser Omaha (CL-4) and destroyer Somers (DD-381) encounter two ships in succession that fail to answer challenges; Omaha sends armed boarding party each time to obtain information. The vessels prove to be Greek freighter Marika Protopapa and Norwegian merchantman Tercero.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Now that the Marines on Wake have more fighters to throw into battle, I could see another Japanese raid or two getting cut up pretty badly if enough of the fighters can by put in the air. After one or two more bloody noses, I could see them either scaling back if not stopping operations, or building up to launch bigger strikes. If course the latter option would likely result in pulling squadrons from other areas, possibly squadrons that would otherwise be ment for places like Rabaul.

With this PBY squadron working out of Wake, and given their range and armaments, I wonder if they might stumble on the odd Japanese submarine either going or coming from the Marshalls. I know that early on a lot of their submarines where deployed through that area, and with long range aircraft to look for them, I could easily see the occasional plane getting lucky.
 

Bearcat

Banned
Now that the Marines on Wake have more fighters to throw into battle, I could see another Japanese raid or two getting cut up pretty badly if enough of the fighters can by put in the air. After one or two more bloody noses, I could see them either scaling back if not stopping operations, or building up to launch bigger strikes. If course the latter option would likely result in pulling squadrons from other areas, possibly squadrons that would otherwise be ment for places like Rabaul.

With this PBY squadron working out of Wake, and given their range and armaments, I wonder if they might stumble on the odd Japanese submarine either going or coming from the Marshalls. I know that early on a lot of their submarines where deployed through that area, and with long range aircraft to look for them, I could easily see the occasional plane getting lucky.

Could happen.

Some of the 'nuisance' sub bombardments of islands like Johnston will be diverted to Wake here. They might do some damage, they might lose a sub. Luck of the draw.
 
Any thought to using Wake to stage B-17 strikes on the Marshalls? All they need is fuel and bombs. Using Bomb Bay tanks and four 500-pound bombs, they should be able to reach Kwajalein Atoll and return. Launch from Hickam with bomb bay tanks, arrive at Wake, load up with bombs and refuel, strike, return Wake to refuel, and head back to Hickam. (The B-17s that flew from Midway OTL had this loadout whenever they went out)
 

Bearcat

Banned
Any thought to using Wake to stage B-17 strikes on the Marshalls? All they need is fuel and bombs. Using Bomb Bay tanks and four 500-pound bombs, they should be able to reach Kwajalein Atoll and return. Launch from Hickam with bomb bay tanks, arrive at Wake, load up with bombs and refuel, strike, return Wake to refuel, and head back to Hickam. (The B-17s that flew from Midway OTL had this loadout whenever they went out)

Makes sense; only thing holding it back will be the need to build up fuel stores and bomb depots on the island. Equipment for defending the island (men, guns, fighters) will have first call on shipping space initially. Maybe three to six months or so?

If Wake continues to hold the central Pacific advance, when it starts (still likely 1943), will likely be altered. Maybe directly to Kwajalein from Wake, bypassing the Tarawa nightmare altogether - though that suggests learning some harsh lessons somewhere else.
 
*Following up on my recent brainstorm thread... the US fixes / improves its torpedoes before the beginning of the Pacific War.



[FONT=&quot]Phoenix Beneath The Waves: The Mark 14 Torpedo, Part One[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]By William D. Baker, Commander, USN[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Excerpted from Proceedings of the U.S. Naval Institute, December, 1981[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]No weapon of war was more maligned or doubted than the American Mark 14 torpedo during the two years before US entry into World War II. That the torpedo became a reliable, even formidable weapon, which in large measure was responsible for the destruction of the Japanese Empire, would have seemed fanciful, even fantastic, in the dark days of mid-1940.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But like the famed bird of mythology, the Mark 14 rose from its own ashes to become the backbone of the American submarine offensive during the early days of World War II.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The story of the Great US Torpedo Scandal of 1939-1941 is well known to most of our readers. Through financial penury, bureaucratic obstinacy and lack of political will, the US Navy had unwittingly produced a torpedo in the mid-1930s that was almost wholly unsatisfactory. Historians have often surmised that if events had unfolded differently, the Navy's great mistake might have caused many thousands of lives.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thankfully, the Rhode Island Scandal of 1937-38 changed that.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The impeachment and removal from office of Senator Peter Gerry for influence peddling started a chain of events that blew the lid off years of political patronage and institutionalized incompetence at the Newport Torpedo Station (Wyatt, 1972).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When rumor first reached the White House in the spring of 1939 that all was not well in Newport, President Roosevelt asked for an investigation by the Navy. As Admiral Ernest King had been passed over for promotion to CINCUS or CNO that June, and relegated to the General board, FDR suggested that he head the investigation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Probably Roosevelt had no idea of the firestorm he would unleash. King, who was as brilliant as he was irascible, quickly tired of the double talk and circled wagons of the Newport cabal. In an extraordinary showdown, he sought and obtained Roosevelt's blessing in widening the investigation to include all aspects of the Station's performance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What he found was startling.[/FONT]
Yeeha!!!

I've wanted to make the US torpedoes work, e.g. based on early reports actually being believed, but given the OTL wall of denial, it's been hard to figure out a way to make it happen.

Getting the sucker fixed BEFORE the war, in what seems to be a believable manner is glorious.

Thank you, thank you!!!!


Personally, I think some of those guys should have been charged and convicted of treason!
 
USMC SB2Us (VMSB 231), led by a plane-guarding PBY (VP 21) (no ships are available to plane-guard the flight), arrive at Midway, completing the longest over-water massed flight (1,137 miles) by single-engine aircraft. The squadron had been embarked in Lexington (CV-2) when the outbreak of war cancelled the projected ferry mission on 7 December 1941.
Wiki says these planes have a range of 630 miles (actually the mk2 version). Can they really fly 1137 miles? I suppose IF the 630 is fully combat loaded, maybe....
 

Hyperion

Banned
I'm particularly interested in how he plans to handle the Battle of Balikpapan around the end of January, followed by Halsey attacking the Marshals on the 1st of February.

Few major targets, but a host of smaller warships and auxiliary ships about. Neither attack seperately or combined would stop Japan of they go good for the US Navy, but it would definitely be a moral booster, and it might make some of the more cautious Japanese admirals rethink their plans.
 
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