Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

Not necessarily. Actually, there's also the possibility of a civil war - possibly with rivalizing factions (imagine, the US military launches a coup against the CSA regime in order to defend tradition American values, a scenario I could very well see in this scenario). It could also explain what the "other" faction in the Battle of the Baffin Bay was - even though I admit that's somewhat far fetched (and why Baffin Bay, what were the Canadians doing in that war, anyways?).

Maybe they were trying to keep Quebec and the Cascadians from replicating what happened in America.

In any case, it's implied in (at least) 2 of the endings that no contact with Earth was ever made and that WW3 finally did mankind in sometime after Unity's launch.
 
my favorite faction by far is the Cyborg Consciousness, because they are :cool:

I havent played many factions yet, despite owning the game for 10+ years. the rest just dont appeal to me (played university before). I'll prolly try the Hive one of these days. The Data Angels seem to be an interesting choice as well.

I am a terraforming maniac also, pretty much like the Hive AI.
 
lonestarr said:
I havent played many factions yet, despite owning the game for 10+ years.

Me neither. Come to think of it, I have never played any faction from the Alien Crossfire expansion set (and Yang from the Hive only in that nifty demo version)

Although the Crossfire Factions do have a use to me. In single player games, Zarkharov and/or Miriam are performing rather poorly when AI controlled. More often than not they end up being the first two eradicated factions. So in some games I switched them out for two Crossfire factions which usually do better.
 
I've played them all, just to try it out, though I never really change my style, as said before. While the hive would probably fit my strategy best, they just don't appeal for some reason.
 
The ecodamage system in AC makes no sense. You get a base number of clean minerals, which I think is around 9 or something. Each base can produce that many without causing ecodamage. That number increases by one for each worm "pop" that occurs, and by one for each ecology facility (ie treefarm, hybrid forest, centauri preserve) you build anywhere in your empire after the first fungal bloom. It's really counterintuitive, since it's pretty important to use crawlers to force a pop as early as possible, so ecology structures can reduce ecodamage. The important bit is that the clean mineral limit increase from each fungal bloom applies to all empires, no matter where the bloom occurs, and that global warming results when there are multiple blooms per turn on Planet. Towards the endgame, even if all your cities are clean, you can be certain that there would be enough dirty bases in the other factions to cause multiple blooms per turn, making global warming (messing up all your expensive terraforming) near certain. The only real way to get around this is to force up the clean mineral limit early by continuously inducing 1 (and only 1) fungal bloom per turn before the other factions start seriously industrialising. (well, you could also kill all the other factions, that works just as well.)

I never knew that...which is embarrassing, since I played the game a lot. The pollution equation in the help section only mentions efficiency and planet rating, though, I think. I remember one time I cranked up my efficiency and planet rating to the highest possible, and it seemed to have no effect! lol.

I really enjoyed playing as the University, since they could utilize alien artifacts. And, of course, every base had a network node, which was useful for the Virtual World SP (since it needed a network node to be built). It's just fun to have really fast research. Also, population boom growth rate and/or the Cloning Vats SP were simply ridiculous--+1 population per base on each turn! Infinite City Sprawl was something the developers didn't really balance until Civ 4.

The Gaians, or any faction that got at least a +1 planet rating, were pretty cheap with the whole capture mindworm thing. The computer really has a hard time dealing with that! But it's cool.

A cool unit: scout patrol. Why scout patrol? Useful for police. Giving it the peaceful methods upgrade allowed double police, which was nice. Plus, scout patrol were enough to control early mindworm attacks.
 
Not realy sure here what you mean - how do you do it?

And, if the Planet responds in kind - do other factions get attacked as well?

Using planet busters on unihabited ares gets the planet rather upset, but it seemed to only attack me. (It has been a while though, maybe it attacked others and I didn't remember.)
 
Using planet busters on unihabited ares gets the planet rather upset, but it seemed to only attack me. (It has been a while though, maybe it attacked others and I didn't remember.)

What a terrible waste of planet busters! Use it on Gaians instead :cool: :D

In all seriousness, that is interesting. where do you aim them at? can you detonate it midair, or do you need to target a fungalbloom? I might want to try that some time. Sounds like good fun :)
 
I never knew that...which is embarrassing, since I played the game a lot. The pollution equation in the help section only mentions efficiency and planet rating, though, I think. I remember one time I cranked up my efficiency and planet rating to the highest possible, and it seemed to have no effect! lol.

Yeah, it's really poorly explained. As I understand it, all the factors stated by Datalinks to affect ecodamage, actually only affect the amount of ecodamage you get once you go over the clean mineral limit. If your clean mineral limit is 16, then if you produce exactly 16 minerals at that base, you will have no ecodamage, even if you are running Free Market pushing your planet rating to -3, and the base is surrounded entirely by Boreholes, condensors, and mirrors. Another thing of interest, is that minerals from lunar mines are always clean, ie they don't count towards the clean mineral limit, but any additional minerals you get from running lunar production through any multiplier facilities do count. No where in the game does it tell you this, and if you build the Singularity Inductor SP while you have lunar mines up, it can take a lot of annoying mental arithmetic to figure out how to bring your ecodamage back down.

A cool unit: scout patrol. Why scout patrol? Useful for police. Giving it the peaceful methods upgrade allowed double police, which was nice. Plus, scout patrol were enough to control early mindworm attacks.

If you add the clean reactor as well, it doubles (ha!) the cost to 20 minerals, and removes support. As Yang, in particular, because of his free Police State, if you get the ascetic virtues SP, the clean police patrol becomes insanely efficient. You can suppress up to 9 drones at the cost of just 60 minerals, with no upkeep. Compare that with the Rec Commons, at 40 minerals, and 1 energy per turn upkeep which can only suppress 2 drones. Further, another one of those little things they don't mention in Datalinks, are the "superdrones," which eat up 2 drone control slots for all drone control buildings or cost twice as much psych to turn into a citizen. However, a police truncheon doesn't care about how angry the drone is, and 3 cops can crush 9 superdrones as easily as they crush 9 regular drones, which is why I find getting to +3 police incredibly important. This is also the greatest weakness of the Gaians, their inability to get to +3 police by just getting Asthetic Virtues and building a Brood Pit.
 
If you add the clean reactor as well, it doubles (ha!) the cost to 20 minerals, and removes support. As Yang, in particular, because of his free Police State, if you get the ascetic virtues SP, the clean police patrol becomes insanely efficient. You can suppress up to 9 drones at the cost of just 60 minerals, with no upkeep. Compare that with the Rec Commons, at 40 minerals, and 1 energy per turn upkeep which can only suppress 2 drones. Further, another one of those little things they don't mention in Datalinks, are the "superdrones," which eat up 2 drone control slots for all drone control buildings or cost twice as much psych to turn into a citizen. However, a police truncheon doesn't care about how angry the drone is, and 3 cops can crush 9 superdrones as easily as they crush 9 regular drones, which is why I find getting to +3 police incredibly important. This is also the greatest weakness of the Gaians, their inability to get to +3 police by just getting Asthetic Virtues and building a Brood Pit.

That's right, I did clean reactor with those too.
 

Susano

Banned
What are people's favourite/least favourite factions? The ones I use most are probably University, Gaians, and Caretakers; I think the only faction I've never actually won the game (or even played very far) with are the Believers, partly because they repel me ideologically (even more than, say, the Hive) and partly because they just seem weak. There's definitely not a perfect power balance among the factions; you can see this in the way certain ones do better than others under AI control.
Oh, thats straightforwards with me: University (SCIENCE!), UN (TALENTS! That is, base stability even when you dont have any project or facilit yto that regard yet) and Gaians (EFFICIENCE!). Thats of the old factions of course, as said I dont care much for the new ones... they are all playable, as are most of the rest of the old factions. The only exception is the Morganites. Habitate Complex needed at 4 citizens is just too crass, and I absolutely cant stand the negative police effects of Free Market (and I choose the ideology of every faction I choose). The Hive before the patch that gave them immunity to effcience losses (for police state or commadn economy) was also bad due to the inefficiency it thusly got, but with that added bonus its also playable.

On the Ascent to Transcendence being anti-individualistic: I didn't get the impression that was entirely the case. People who wanted to spend some or all their time as individuals could incarnate in a body or exist as a semi-independent persona within the hive-mind.
Yeah, semi-independant...

I find the Gaians to be the easiest to play, because of how straightforward it is to just forest everything and how easy you can popboom. The Hive is a straightforward powerhouse well suited to the all specialist strategy, as is the University, but my favorite has to be the Morganites.
Bah, you dont play the game, you game it :p

And I would argue that all the factions are balanced, just not for singleplayer.
I agree with your critcism of the AI. Gaians are the only faction with a halfways decent AI (building enough bases - so do Hive and Believers, but that collapses once they go to war, which happens way too quickly), but of course only for as long as theres no war... and the Morganite AI is so sucky that it boggles the mind, and UN and University AIs are only little better...

The rest of your post is of course even more crazy gaming which isnt even needed AT ALL against the AI! :p
 
I preferred the University (for the fast tech-advancement, and Zakharov's "SCIENCE!" vibe), the Peacekeepers (so what if they're a bumbling space-UN?) and the Lord's Believers (although playing against them is another matter).

On the Ascent to Transcendence being anti-individualistic: I didn't get the impression that was entirely the case. People who wanted to spend some or all their time as individuals could incarnate in a body or exist as a semi-independent persona within the hive-mind.

It's mentioned that special shelters and cryo-vats were built for those who refused the idea of Transcendence to wait out the whole sequence. This also explains why the colonists who returned to Earth are human.
 
It was a ridiculously fun game. And I admit, my basic strategy, once I learned the ropes, was to go hyper builder, build up some massive industrial and scientific capabilities, and then just planet buster my foes to kingdom come.
 
Bah, you dont play the game, you game it :p

Hey, in Transcend, you actually need most of the tricks if you want to both win and set up an aesthetically pleasing empire, ie no ugly ICS, minimal number of bases to reduce micromanagment, putting all the SPs in the most efficient manner rather than where ever you can, or God forbid having to capture a terrible AI city to get it, etc.

I agree with your critcism of the AI. Gaians are the only faction with a halfways decent AI (building enough bases - so do Hive and Believers, but that collapses once they go to war, which happens way too quickly), but of course only for as long as theres no war... and the Morganite AI is so sucky that it boggles the mind, and UN and University AIs are only little better...

I firmly believe AC is the finest strategy game ever made...if only not for the craptastic AI. The enormous power of social engineering, terraforming, and supply crawlers allow a huge assortment of strategies, and the (original 7) factions are near perfectly balanced, but wildly different in play, nothing like the minimal differences in practice you see with Civ 4. Sadly, this only appears in multiplayer, and its just too hard to get a multi-game set up and properly played.

The AI, on the other hand, is both what the vast majority of players will face, and completely anemic, thus greatly limiting both the diversity of strategies used and faced.

Its problems are manifold, but can be boiled down to:

1) Inability to terraform: It just doesn't emphasize Centauri ecology enough or get formers out early enough. It also doesn't understand even basic terraforming much less advanced terraforming or crawler heavy strats, witness the prevalence of the useless mine/farm combo on perfectly good flatland. Incidently, this is actually something players can improve. It's recommended to mod alphax.txt so that all factions start with 1 former, allow formers to be built without Centauri ecology, and make the build road and plant forest abilities available from the beginning with the other early abilities except for mines unlocked at CentauriEc. Mines should be pushed back to that tech that lifts the mineral cap. You'll find that the AI responds to attack better with a functioning road net, builds faster and is less chocked by fungus with the spreading of early planted forests, and techs faster with more solar collectors instead of useless flatland mines.

2) Inability to use Social Engineering: AC Social engineering is not like the incremental or discrete benefits from Civics in other Civ games, but rather based on reaching specific thresholds while minimising the costs of doing so, ie +3 Police for double police, +2 Economy for +1 E per square, +6 growth for popboom, +4 Efficiency for Paradigm economy, +3 Probe for probe immunity, etc, and the AI never aims for these thresholds. One thing you see every game is Morgan switching to Free Market, when Morgan's biggest advantage is the ability to get to +2 Economy without FM, and doing so without doing anything to counter the massive Police penalty, proceeding to destroy their entire empire with endless drone riots.

3) Inability to use Supply Crawlers: This is a biggie, since Crawlers are important to every single strategy, and most actually revolve around them. In multiplayer, you'll never get a single SP without crawlers, and lack of crawler pickets means death as enemy scouts wander your empire at will.

4) Inability to plan: The AI only ever reacts. It never plans for military campaigns by forming alliances and isolating the enemy. It'll declare war with its own troops wildly out of place and its core territories uncovered. It'll invade the Gaians with a small number of highly teched units without trance or empath when a huge stack of mindworms is clearly visable, or build no probes when (not) preparing to attack the University. This also feeds into 2, since a lot of Social Engineering requires planning. You need a plan for ensuring peace and countering worms before going to FM, and a plan for using that cash once you switch out. It takes careful planning to set up drone control, food, and terraforming in advance of a popboom. And of course, lastly, the AI never has a plan for actually winning. It doesn't aim for any victory conditions, and only ever wins if it blunders into it.

Sadly, not one of these issues were corrected in later Civs. (3) was covered for by eliminating Crawlers/caravans, (1) and (2) were hidden by nerfing the power of each, and (4) is simply still there.

Where can one find this game?

Unless you can find the "Planetary Pack" which combines both the original and the expansion, the only way to get the expansion is pretty much to pirate it. Due to a low production run or something, you'll find Alien Crossfire selling on Ebay for over $200 sometimes, and you'll never find it in any legitimate online stores. I figure this is stupid enough that pirating is justified. I actually pirated the expansion when I lost my original AX disk during a move, though I think in that case, it was actually legal since I did buy it originally.
 
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Oh man I loved this game (and expansion), I spent hundreds of hours in the late 90s/early 00s playing. Then the discs and machine vanished and I've not played it since, although I've played the Civ series since, but while 3/4 are good, they lack something.

The bits I like in particular are the extensive social and government customisation options as well as the unit workshop. I used to love making insanely expensive Formers based on the hover chasis and with psi defence for the endgame mindboil surges
 

Susano

Banned
Hey, in Transcend, you actually need most of the tricks if you want to both win and set up an aesthetically pleasing empire, ie no ugly ICS, minimal number of bases to reduce micromanagment, putting all the SPs in the most efficient manner rather than where ever you can, or God forbid having to capture a terrible AI city to get it, etc.
Whats ICS? You mentioned it before, but... :eek:
And yes, spamming bases. Thats my strategy. Personally, I just find unused territory so... damn aesthetically unpleasing because realistcially (if this were a real world enviroment) somebody would grab and use it. Ideally, the AI should, for better balanced games, but well...

Anyways, against the AI thats really way more than sufficient to win even in transcend. I usually dont play at that level because drones beginning with the 2nd worker is so damn annoying, but it can be done easily with no special tricks.

I firmly believe AC is the finest strategy game ever made...if only not for the craptastic AI.
Heh some time back somebody bumbed a thread from 2002 or 2003, and even back then I said so: That my wish for a dream strategy game would be a SMAC with better AI. Hell, CIV3 AI (which I said back then) would even be quite a leap, because at least the CIV3 AI (as opposed to SMAC and CIV2) actually uses its territory and open territory to build enough cities, at just the right distances. That would really draw out most of the suckiness of the SMAC AI, though of course the points you mention remain. (And that problem seems to be encoded in the AI files of the single factions in SMAC, too - simply getting an Expand focus for every faction doesnt work, sadly)

The enormous power of social engineering, terraforming, and supply crawlers allow a huge assortment of strategies, and the (original 7) factions are near perfectly balanced, but wildly different in play, nothing like the minimal differences in practice you see with Civ 4. Sadly, this only appears in multiplayer, and its just too hard to get a multi-game set up and properly played.
...then again, I have to wonder wether I really want the CIV/SMAC franchise to experience the same transformation as StarCraft saw :p
I odnt really want the AI to know suck tricks and game the system. I just want it to be, well, clever.

1) Inability to terraform: It just doesn't emphasize Centauri ecology enough or get formers out early enough.
Well, if non-directed research is chosen, then its actually pretty difficult not to get Centauri Ecology as the first or second technology researched. Or does the AI pick research regardless?

witness the prevalence of the useless mine/farm combo on perfectly good flatland.
I dont know whats good about flatland :p but yes, those combination are horrendous, and so is the AI "trend" to build solar cells, but not farms...

You'll find that the AI responds to attack better with a functioning road net, builds faster and is less chocked by fungus with the spreading of early planted forests, and techs faster with more solar collectors instead of useless flatland mines.
But a road net is the first thing which the AI builds anyways! And most of the time they end up helping me as attacker (Im reminded of CIV2, where the AI builds loads of fortresses it never uses, so they can be uses as attack bases by the invader, i.e. me... of course thats an even worse problem). It b uilds ridicously dense road networks. IMO it would help if the AI would focus on base land improvements first.
Still, if it can do that earlier because the ropads are finished earlier, then that would probably help, so Ill probably test your suggestion.

2) Inability to use Social Engineering: AC Social engineering is not like the incremental or discrete benefits from Civics in other Civ games, but rather based on reaching specific thresholds while minimising the costs of doing so, ie +3 Police for double police, +2 Economy for +1 E per square, +6 growth for popboom, +4 Efficiency for Paradigm economy, +3 Probe for probe immunity, etc, and the AI never aims for these thresholds. One thing you see every game is Morgan switching to Free Market, when Morgan's biggest advantage is the ability to get to +2 Economy without FM, and doing so without doing anything to counter the massive Police penalty, proceeding to destroy their entire empire with endless drone riots.[/quoite]
Its bad enough that the Gaians NEVER go Green. If theres a background story and all, and the factions are supposed to be represent ideologies, then I do want them to follow those ideologies! It would be best if there was a game option that in its ideologys section, every faction can only choose their own ideology, but alas, thats not something to be done with a quick fix in the text files.

Btw, is +4 Efficiency the maximum bonus you can get? Its after all very easy to gain more efficiency (maximum of +9 with Gaians), and it does seem to help to prevent the creation of extra drones, but do higher levels beyond +4 also help to reduce waste, or is that utterly redundant?

After all, efficiency is more or less the only thing I go for...

3) Inability to use Supply Crawlers: This is a biggie, since Crawlers are important to every single strategy, and most actually revolve around them. In multiplayer, you'll never get a single SP without crawlers, and lack of crawler pickets means death as enemy scouts wander your empire at will.
Actually, that I find a major annoyance in SMAC, that non-combat units have azone of control - even those like probe teams who ignore enemy ZOCs and who background-wise "officially dont exist", and hence really shouldnt have a ZOC!

Anyways, yes. Lack of supply crawlers on part of the AI is bad. Hell, I probably wouldnt survive in MP, since Im absolutely untrained in handling them, as after all the AI doesnt use them either, so you dont need them for projects...

4) Inability to plan: The AI only ever reacts. It never plans for military campaigns by forming alliances and isolating the enemy. It'll declare war with its own troops wildly out of place and its core territories uncovered. It'll invade the Gaians with a small number of highly teched units without trance or empath when a huge stack of mindworms is clearly visable, or build no probes when (not) preparing to attack the University.
Haha, yes. And worst of all it never coordinates assaults. Not only is there never a troop buildup, there is also nearly nev er a real troop amassment. Its hilarious when teh AI always lands two units at your shores, and nothing more... or, if there is a land connection, sends a stream of units to be defeated one after the other.

This also feeds into 2, since a lot of Social Engineering requires planning. You need a plan for ensuring peace and countering worms before going to FM, and a plan for using that cash once you switch out. It takes careful planning to set up drone control, food, and terraforming in advance of a popboom. And of course, lastly, the AI never has a plan for actually winning. It doesn't aim for any victory conditions, and only ever wins if it blunders into it.
Nono,m as indicated, I dont want Social Engineering to be used for short term gains. Obligatory ideological choice for every faction, and the rest only as a matter of long term strategy. Hm, maybe gigantically raising the costs of changing social engineering to achieve that? ;)
 
I must agree with the German here: a SMAC Remade, properly, would be a very good game, given that SMAC already is quite good. Maybe they could have integrated SMAX properly, so that games with more factions would be possible...
Oh, well. Never going to happen, and in any case Reynolds isn't at Firaxis anymore.:(
 
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