Should we include DBWI's outside of Shared Worlds?

Discussion in 'Help and Rules' started by Kaiser Chris, Jul 17, 2017.

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Should DBWI's be outside of Shared Worlds?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    38.1%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    61.9%
  1. Kaiser Chris Emperor of the United States, Protector of Mexico

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    So one of the biggest issues I have with the forums is the constant creation of DBWI's that exist within the different forums. Now I am not entirely against the creation of a DBWI as they can tend to be somewhat fun experiences. It just seems to me that lately they have gotten out of control with dozens of DBWI's each week over the smallest and weirdest divergences and are blocking up too much space in the section. I'm mainly concerned about this for the relevant Alt. History discussion threads and up and coming TL's who do not receive high support as new writers may not get enough attention in the first page if its constantly fluttered with DBWI's with insane scenarios that at a first glance people will pay more attention to than their threads.

    Then there's also the issue that DBWI's get too out of hand easily and become a different discussion then what it was intentionally. This is due to the nature of it being a collaborative thread and the fact that certain users will hijack it and say whatever they want, even if it has of no immediate or clear relation. Posts like these tend to derail the thread and make it unreadable after a few pages while some threads just get bland altogether. An example of a thread derailment is"

    DBWI: What if Franz Ferdinand died in Sarajevo?

    "Well obviously without WWI starting the way it did than Britain would've never gotten involved and would have Canada taken over by the USA after Douglas MacArthur captured Ottowa."

    DBWI: What if Richard Nixon attempted to break into the DNC?
    "Well without Donald Rumsfeld in power than WW3 would never have happened."

    My question to the Mods and the board in general, is should we allow DBWI's to continue to exist outside of Shared Worlds? If so why and if not then why not?
     
  2. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    Under a bridge, handing out business cards
    Yes. A DBWI is effectively a TL, albeit one that's created by multiple writers. As such, they should be allowed in whatever forum is appropriate.

    I mean, there are TLs that include fake posts on message boards as part of world building. Do they belong in Shared Worlds?
     
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  3. ajm8888 That Guy from Minnesota

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    I agree.
     
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  4. theev Suede-Denim Secret Police

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    I agree that DBWIs shouldn't be isolated to Shared Worlds but the bolded is a false equivalency. The difference is that those fake message board posts are all created by one author with no active involvement from other commentators unlike DBWIs.
     
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  5. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    Under a bridge, handing out business cards
    My point was that DBWIs only really are set apart from other TLs via the format, i.e. pretending to post on another history's AH.com.

    So: on the one hand, we have TLs with fake message board posts, like DBWIs; and on the other, the site does have a fair few collaborative TLs, like DBWIs. DBWIs are essentially collaborative TLs that exclusively use fake message board posts to create the universe.
     
  6. Dragos Cel Mare I don't want to be a selfish jerk anymore...

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    Atompunk Manila
    Note however that Chris' issues with DBWIs are still legitimate, and another way has to be found of addressing those...
     
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  7. Lalli Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Might be better that we allow DBWIs stricktly only to SW forum. But moderators too should begin move them there.

    People have indeed difficulties to understand what is DBWI. Speciality it is quiet serious problem that some people just add some crazy stuff and don't seemingly cooperate with OP and previous posters. Too many times I have seen DBWIs where someone posts something which is not on line with OP and other posts.
     
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  8. theg*ddam*hoi2fan Beware of the Leopard

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Under a bridge, handing out business cards
    The problem is - as has been pointed out elsewhere - Shared Worlds is kind of a different part of the site, with (largely, this isn't universal - I like Shared Worlds) a different user base. I've seen really good DBWIs that died off when they got moved to SW, because people who might have contributed didn't know they existed. I disagree with moving DBWIs there for that reason: if they're coherent and discussion is creating an interesting TL, they should be left where they are.
     
  9. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Republic of Beerhaven
    DBWIs need to be moderated otherwise they have a tendency to degenerate into RolePlay or get derailed by implausible/contradictory posts.
    A consistent shared knowledge of the "rules of DBWIing" would help but the difficulty is implementing that.
     
  10. Kaiser Chris Emperor of the United States, Protector of Mexico

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    The problem with this rule is that DBWI's are essentially stories with a beginning, a middle with various conflicting sources, and no end. The fake posts on message boards of TL's are solely related to that TL's world and are usually done by the author or at least done by other commentors with the author's consent. A DBWI is just a haphazard thread with a simple premise that has virtually no moderation and can go anywhere. Often times a DBWI will die by page 5 due to so many people leading it in such bizarre directions. The absolute worse case of this is a Death Note DBWI asking what happened to Kira. Then in the middle of it some guy decided to bring current politics and made it look like the Republican Party was full of a bunch of evil people who Kira happily killed while Obama-kun and his friends were able to save the day thanks to their Liberal policies and being approved by Kira. This is so bad because the original Death Note story never focused on politics and Kira simply killed those who were active criminals.

    The main problem with a DBWI is that there is no cohesion. Collabortives work because they generally have the OP and a few other people moving the story along in a clear and procise direction with key story events, while most of the other posts being to build up the world. However this does not always work well such as how Bush's 2nd term quickly turned into an ALT pop culture fest. I do not consider DBWI's to be true TL's because they never build a cohesive history and are simply random facts thrown by people to show that they are the most knowledgeable on the subject, get things to go their preferred way, or express their political viewpoints.

    What's worse is that the dozens of mindless oneshot DBWI's that pop up take attention away from other TL's that deserve the spotlight even more. Say Billy Bob is a new member of the board who would like to make a TL on a niche subject such as Brazilian Politics in After 1900. The problem that Billy Bob has in starting out is that not too many people on the site are as knowledgable on the subject or have an apparent interest in it, in addition to the fact that he does not have name recognition due to being a new member. Due to this Billy Bob needs his thread to be on the first page of the forum or else most people will never pay attention. And then we have people spamming out 5 DBWI's in a day which in many respects can be a copycat to previous threads.

    Most of all I think that the DBWI issue needs to be addressed now because there is not a huge incentive on creating an ongoing story for them. No matter what the quality of a DBWI is, Calbear along with some of the other moderators almost always move them to Shared Worlds when it reaches 10 pages or so. If these threads are going to continuously end up in Shared Worlds no matter what then they really take up space that other threads deserve to have some recognition. This is why in the Fandom thread posting ASOIAF threads are taboo unless they are actual story TL's. That way they don't clutter up the forum and take attention away from all the other stories with threads that don't have the same subject.
     
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  11. Pkmatrix Godzilla Fanboy Monthly Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The big problem with Double-Blind What Ifs, and why they keep getting moved to Shared Worlds, is that many people either don't understand how it supposed to works or they're just so poorly moderated that they end up becoming Double-Blind Role Plays. To make matters worse, MANY posters here don't even know there's a difference! I wrote up a post years ago explaining the two, but sadly nobody really pays attention to it:

    Double-Blind (DBWI) and Future-Blind (FBWI) What If FAQ
     
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