Shinano Supercarriers for the IJN?

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Ming777

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Speaking of the Midways, IIRC, they were built on a heavily modified version of the Montana-class's hull.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Speaking of the Midways, IIRC, they were built on a heavily modified version of the Montana-class's hull.

So the United States could have built the Montana class if it had decided not to build Midway class aircraft carriers for some reason?
 
So the United States could have built the Montana class if it had decided not to build Midway class aircraft carriers for some reason?

If you don't mind them being completed in 1947.

It took four years for three of the Iowas to go from Keel to Combat. Wisky made in three years.

Any BB laid much after Jan1 1942 won't hit combat in 1945. Wisconsin was laid Jan42 and she barely made it.

Midways were laid in 1943 IIRC. Even if the Montana's were built as fast as an Iowa, it won't be ready until 1947.
Midway took two years to go from Keel to Commission and she still missed combat.
 
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We could've built both. Five Montanas were planned, and six Midways. Montana was originally set to be laid down in 1941 along with the second unit, Ohio. Some design changes and more pressing wartime construction pushed them back, until all five (Montana, Ohio, Maine, New Hampshire, and Louisiana) were canceled on 21 July 1943. Incidentally, Japanese Naval Intelligence knew about the ships, and predicted in an estimate on 1 July 1943 that the ships would be canceled and the materials and funds used for additional carrier construction. The three Midways that were canceled were done so before they were laid down, and they were unnamed.
 

Delta Force

Banned
The Midway class was designed for 130 aircraft, and Shinano could have carried 160. It's unlikely the Midway class would have been designed to carry such a large number of aircraft if the logistics wouldn't work out on that scale. How difficult would controlling over a hundred aircraft be for an aircraft carrier?
 
The Midway class was designed for 130 aircraft, and Shinano could have carried 160. It's unlikely the Midway class would have been designed to carry such a large number of aircraft if the logistics wouldn't work out on that scale. How difficult would controlling over a hundred aircraft be for an aircraft carrier?
Extremely, the Midway's found a 130 aircraft wing too unwieldy in practice, and the number was soon reduced to a manageable amount
 
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I haven't read the previous posts, but I reckon that a bespoke aircraft carrier of the same dimensions, same machinery and same displacement would have the same aircraft carrying capacity of at least 2 Tahios.

Having said that if 2 super carriers had been built in place of Yamato and Mushashi then the Japanese would have built 2 more Yorktown or Essex class carriers to counter them. IIRC Hornet and Essex were built to counter Shokaku and Zuikaku. And at that time (1937) they had the resources to build more aircraft carriers without building less than something else.

It would be a different story if 2 more super carriers in place of Shinanno and No 111 as the Americans were building to the limit of their resources so that would mean sacrificing some of the Iowas and Alaskas in the same way that the Montanas were suspended IOTL. They might have the 2 ships ready for Leyte Gulf if the sacrifice the Unyru class.

However, as has already been said the steel for one Yamato equals two Shokaku and then some. I estimate that the Japanese could have completed 6 Shokakus by the end of 1942 in place of the 2 Yamatos, 2 Hiyos and 2 Zuikakus that were really built. I think that would have been a better investment even if the Americans had matched them one-to-one.

In terms of steel one Yamato is the rough equivalent of 2 Tahios. Therefore I think the Japanese could have completed 6 Tahios in 1944 if they had not laid down 2 Yamatos, one Tahio and 6 Unryus. I think that would have been a better short-term investment too.

If some had survived the war and the Peace Treaty allowed the Japanese to keep them, they were big enough to be fitted with 4 steam catapults and a fully angled flight deck. Their hangars might be too low for 1950s aircraft, but the British lifted the hangar of Victorious from 16ft to 17.5ft, albeit at great expense. The practical problems are whether Japan could afford to do it and would the ships be in good enough condition to be worth rebuilding.

However, if Japan had the money and the ships were in good enough condition they would be at least better than a Midway refitted to SCB.101 standard and might be as good as Constellation or Kitty Hawk.
 
Extremely, the Midway's found a 130 aircraft wing too unwieldy in practice, and the number was soon reduced to a manageable amount

the new, 2nd Generation larger heavier craft took care of that problem.

A Cougar was 25,000 pounds on take off, double that of the Bearcat, the Skyraider 4-5 tons more than the Helldiver or Avenger.

Then you had the twin engine AJ-1 Savage, twice as heavy as that.
 
If some had survived the war and the Peace Treaty allowed the Japanese to keep them, they were big enough to be fitted with 4 steam catapults and a fully angled flight deck.

ASB

No way they keep ships that started the war

Its JMSDF, remember? Article 9?

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.(2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained.

CVs are prime Offensive units. DDs, Cruisers are defensive.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
ASB

No way they keep ships that started the war

Its JMSDF, remember? Article 9?

ARTICLE 9. Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.(2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained.

CVs are prime Offensive units. DDs, Cruisers are defensive.

To be fair the only thing making their current Helicopter Destroyers different from carriers is that they don't currently park V/STOL aircraft on them.
JS_Izumo_%28DDH-183%29_just_after_her_launch.jpg
 
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