Although Shǔ Hàn was the weakest out of the Three Kingdoms, I'm curious as to how different China would have turned out had Shǔ Hàn won the Three Kingdoms Period instead of Jìn or Wú. Do you think Shǔ would have restored the Hàn Imperial family or have a descendant of Líu Shàn as Emperor? Cultural differences? How long do you think a Shǔ Hàn China would have lasted?
Shǔ Hàn China
- Thread starter Montgomerie Ward
- Start date
Shu Han was the Han imperial family hence the name, it would be another restoration of the Han so technically it would be a third Han dynasty. It would be impossible or at best very difficult, the battle of Yi Ling and the Northern campaigns would be a waste of energy that Shu couldn't afford. You would have no fallout between Wu and Shu over Jing province, but you are still left with how to divide Wei even being generous Shu at least takes Luo Yang and the Liang province, Wu can still get the Central Plains. Unless for some odd The Gongsun family who did have most of Korea, join in and take Hebei province.
Shu Han would be more viable, but could it really risking going to war against Wu without resorting to double dealing with a theoretical Gongsun family in the north.
Shu Han would be more viable, but could it really risking going to war against Wu without resorting to double dealing with a theoretical Gongsun family in the north.
scholar
Banned
It would have most likely been a descendant of Liu Shan, the Guangwu Emperor was not the closest to the throne in direct descent, but his success in restoring the dynasty meant he clearly had the mandate of heaven. The Wei court was categorized by meritocracy at first, but as power shifted away from the imperial family it relied more closely upon conservative aristocratic landholders, and the take over by the Sima family has been described as a return to an older style of rulership. The Jin greatly empowered its relatives to prevent a collapse of royal authority after a few distant relatives were done away with, but this only opened up the door for the war of the 8 princes. Yet the Wei emperor's decision to marry a relatively powerless aristocratic women of humbler birth was also an intentional move to avoid the fate of the Later Han's powerful Dowager clans that controlled court affairs in times of regency.
One might assume that Liu Shan, or one of his descendants, becoming emperor would solidify the idea that the Emperor must be of the Liu clan. This would make second time power reverted back to the old imperial house, and if a fourth time happens later down the line the Emperor may become an inviolable position with the idea that family leadership and the mandate of heaven could be passed around from different branches of the royal line, but not outside of it. This could potentially evolve into a Japan like situation, but that is neither here nor there at the moment. How long authority remains with the Lius, and how long the Han Dynasty lasts in its third iteration is more difficult to answer. There were demographic and climate-related reasons that contributed to the Jin Dynasty's collapse, but the ultimate root could be found with the War of the 8 Princes, which led to the Wu Hu Rebellions. Provided the takeover of China is less devastating to it than the 8 Princes, which may have brought the taxable population down to under 15 million, with China's population itself not being too much greater than that, then it may be able to properly deal with the Wu Hu and the emerging northern Xianbei threat.
But a major drawback is that the imperial examination system may never rise up. The examination system's most early infancy was with the Cao Wei and Jin states. While there was an Imperial academy and personal tutelage among scholars and schools of scholars, the idea of a national bureaucratic testing institution was first brought forward with Chen Qun's system. How big his part was in this process can be debated, but that it first gained prominence in Wei cannot. If Shu Han does not continue it, then the future of China's bureaucracy and its relationship to the scholar-gentry's rigid education process could be made far more fluid and dynamic, or conversely result in a regression in standards and Confucian ethics.
One might assume that Liu Shan, or one of his descendants, becoming emperor would solidify the idea that the Emperor must be of the Liu clan. This would make second time power reverted back to the old imperial house, and if a fourth time happens later down the line the Emperor may become an inviolable position with the idea that family leadership and the mandate of heaven could be passed around from different branches of the royal line, but not outside of it. This could potentially evolve into a Japan like situation, but that is neither here nor there at the moment. How long authority remains with the Lius, and how long the Han Dynasty lasts in its third iteration is more difficult to answer. There were demographic and climate-related reasons that contributed to the Jin Dynasty's collapse, but the ultimate root could be found with the War of the 8 Princes, which led to the Wu Hu Rebellions. Provided the takeover of China is less devastating to it than the 8 Princes, which may have brought the taxable population down to under 15 million, with China's population itself not being too much greater than that, then it may be able to properly deal with the Wu Hu and the emerging northern Xianbei threat.
But a major drawback is that the imperial examination system may never rise up. The examination system's most early infancy was with the Cao Wei and Jin states. While there was an Imperial academy and personal tutelage among scholars and schools of scholars, the idea of a national bureaucratic testing institution was first brought forward with Chen Qun's system. How big his part was in this process can be debated, but that it first gained prominence in Wei cannot. If Shu Han does not continue it, then the future of China's bureaucracy and its relationship to the scholar-gentry's rigid education process could be made far more fluid and dynamic, or conversely result in a regression in standards and Confucian ethics.
That is incorrect.The Han Dynasty itself actually used Sichuan as a base to unify China.After the Qin Dynasty was deposed,Liu Bang was enfeofed with the Kingdom of Hanzhong by Xiang Yu,which included Hanzhong and Sichuan.It was from using Sichuan and Hanzhong as a base that Liu Bang eventually defeated Xiang Yu and unified China.What's critically important is to secure control of Guanzhong.
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