Sforza Empire

Hey do you think it is possible for the Sforza family and Milan to unite Italy and make it a viable world power by the 1600's... Im trying to come up with a TL but i cant think of any ways to make this come about.. any suggestions
 
Hey do you think it is possible for the Sforza family and Milan to unite Italy and make it a viable world power by the 1600's

It's impossible. Period.
Your problem is called Papal state. In order to unify Italy, intended as IOT, you should be able to conquer Rome and abolish the temporal power held by the Pope. Now, while the first part could be done quite easily (plenty of possibilities) the latter is nearly impossible, because it would need a revolution in philosophy that IOT happened only in the late 18th century.

The Sforza could, in theory, go protestant and attempt to destroy the papacy, but that would surely cause a reaction by Spain and the other catholic powers. In other words you would get a crusade in north Italy.

The task is quite difficult even if you ignore the whole papacy question. The effective power of the italian states of the time were pretty even and anyone who'd tried to acquire an hegemony position would have met a stiff resistance.

Southern Italy, finally, was linked dinastically to Aragona and the Spain. Good luck against the superpower of the 16th century.

I think that the best that the Sforza could achieve reastically is a limited enlargement of their territory, but they could get no more than a regional power.
 
If the Sforza family were able to conquer or subjucate Lombardy, which included Genoa would they be able to stop countries such as France, Spain and Austria from conquering them or making them think twice before invading.... would Milan eventual be able to check the influnce of Venice and create some Northen Italian state as a precursor to an Italian State without butting head with the Papal State. Also would this elongate the Renaissance in Italy because didnt the Italian Renaissance end because of the constant wars between Spain,France, and Austria
 
It's impossible. Period.
Your problem is called Papal state. In order to unify Italy, intended as IOT, you should be able to conquer Rome and abolish the temporal power held by the Pope. Now, while the first part could be done quite easily (plenty of possibilities) the latter is nearly impossible, because it would need a revolution in philosophy that IOT happened only in the late 18th century.

Why so? In 1401, the Avignon Papacy is within living memory.

Moreover, power in Italy was not always even; the Sforzas came damn near to taking Florence itself, and ruled Genoa for part of the 15th century. With all that, while Venice could probably last on its own the outcome is still iffy.

Northern Italy is one of the richest territories in Europe at this point. A world power is tricky, but it wouldn't be something to sneeze at.
 
Oh, I was mistaken. I was thinking of Gian Galeazzo, the Milanese Duke who was besieging Florence in 1402 when he died. So, POD: He doesn't, and Florence falls.
 
i think that i will have Francesco Sforza I conquer Genoa and Savona and annex them rather than create a puppet Doge... would that work?
 
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Maybe I wasn't really clear, my fault. I think that unify Italy at this point is pratically impossible due the many interveloping interest. Conquering the whole peninsula would have stirred too many troubles for anyone.

If we are talking about an enlargment of the milanese duchy and its survival, we could have some room.

The Sforza, the thread call for them, not the Visconti, could have managed to acquire control of the little states and towns in Emilia and, with a lot of diplomatical effort, of Genua and its surrounding territory.

It would have been difficult, but not impossible. Florence is another matter. If I remember well the Sforza renounced to try to take the city due the possibility on a venetian intervent.
This is the main factor. The five major regional power of Italy (Venice, Florence, Milan, Naples and the Papacy) lived in a sort of equilibrium, where they tried to best the others trough proxies. This equilibrium was created with the peace of Lodi (1425).
As for the military forces, all of them relied completely on mercenaries (Francesco Sforza was a mercenary captain too, before "acquiring" Milan). So they could field large forces, even if for a limited amount of time.

Northern Italy is one of the richest territories in Europe at this point. A world power is tricky, but it wouldn't be something to sneeze at.

True. But you should remember that was a wealth based mainly on commerce. A long war would have shattered that wealth (think about the situation in Italy after the italian wars of the late 16th century). As for a "blitzkrieg" style war, remember that every little town was fortified and had to be taken with siege (barring treason, of course). Besides at the time no one seemed able to perform such kind of war, given the kind of armaments used.

Anyway I think that the best course of action for the Sforza would have been the dinastic one. Entering into marriage with the other great nobles families, they could inherit new possesions and gain some protection from the other european powers. The Medici survived this way till the 18th century, if I'm not wrong.

So the POD could be a more wise and prudent Sforza family. After all it was a Sforza, Ludovico the Moor, who involved both the French and the Empire into italian politics, which resulted in the end with the duchy of Milan becoming part of the Empire itself.
 
Perhaps we could have something like "Happy Austria" combined with "Prussia"--the Sforzas conquer much of Italy through a judicious combination of marriage and war.

If you want the Ottomans mixed up in it, have the Ottomans threaten or take Rome, forcing the Pope to flee, and have the uber-Sforzas take Rome back and although they allow the Pope to return, don't allow the recreation of the Papal States.

(Or, if the Spanish get too angry, allow the Pope to govern some territory as a vassal of the Sforzas)

One problem with this scenario is the Sforzas beating the Ottomans, since the Italian mercenary armies tended to run away a lot and the Ottomans were the scariest land power in Europe at the time.

Perhaps the Sforzas learn about how Vlad the Impaler made problems for the Ottomans and adopt a hit-and-run style combined with not repressing the peasantry (IIRC most of Vlad's victims were nobles) to gain popular support?

Or perhaps they go along with the Ottomans, only to backstab them at a convenient time. The Keyser-Al-Rumi gets his own Teutoberger Wald, in Italy.

Failing that, they could unite Italy as Ottoman vassals, with the Turk to help them out. If the Church excommunicates them, they could always go Protestant.
 
The "Happy Austria" analogy is probably the best, the other options seem to me a bit too much ASB. The Papacy was still a too much important asset to be left to a minor power and as for collaborating with the ottomans, I don't see how could have realistically worked...

With a wise marriage politic (and a few short wars) the Sforza could have controlled much of North Italy and after the napoleonic wars they would have been in a much better position to actually unify Italy than our time Savoia.
If they survive the "attentions" of France, Austria and Spain, of course ;)
 
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