Seven Jedi

It can't butterfly away Judge Dredd. Well, I suppose it could given the divergence to make this happen could conceivably be in the 1980's since we're talking about Lucas making the decision earlier and being more willing to collaborate butterflies being butterflies. But in any event, Diane Lane's casting alone, all else equal, won't prevent Judge Dredd from being made. That film was released in the summer of 1995, which is when the film I've discussed thus far would begin filming. Chronologically speaking, Judge Dredd was probably filmed at least a year earlier. It's films released in 1996-1997 you have to worry about. Though maybe I have the release date wrong, seeing as I am relying on Wikipedia.

Okay, glad you cleared that up.
 
Well, to know precisely how much time has transpired between scenes, I'd have to actually make the film, wouldn't I? More seriously, I'm terrible at math, and estimating how long each scene would be may be beyond me.

I just figured an estimate would work, but if you didn't have a basic time goal for the film I guess it would be kind of hard. :eek:
 

Glen

Moderator
It's a tense scene, and it is not altogether clear that Owen will be able to arrive at his destination.

I like that you specify that the scene must be tense; lacking that is one of the big problems with the prequels.

I found myself having to draw a little quick family tree when you mentioned that Beru was Anakin's sister, and that Obi-wan was Owen's brother. Very nice.

One suggestion I have while reading: For purposes of the TL, maybe add a timestamp every few paragraphs (or scene change) so we can tell how long the movie would be at each point.

Glad you cut down on the final battle having too many different scenes to keep track of.

The whole movie is tense. In fact that is one big way that it not only differs from the OTL prequels but from the original movies as well. I do not think there are any light or funny scenes in his Seven Jedi.

The family relations become clear if you want to respect what the original movies said but not have Luke and Obi-Wan as blood relations.
 

Glen

Moderator
Well, to know precisely how much time has transpired between scenes, I'd have to actually make the film, wouldn't I? More seriously, I'm terrible at math, and estimating how long each scene would be may be beyond me.

Just give estimates of how long they run. Or you can write a script, act it out and time it!;)
 
The whole movie is tense. In fact that is one big way that it not only differs from the OTL prequels but from the original movies as well. I do not think there are any light or funny scenes in his Seven Jedi.

The family relations become clear if you want to respect what the original movies said but not have Luke and Obi-Wan as blood relations.

I will not say that there are no moments in the film in which the tension lightens briefly for a slightly comedic moment. For example, you have the fish out of water element when Owen and Beru arrive on Coruscant. And then you have the accent thing. Granted you probably aren't going to see any Jar Jar style farce. The biggest difference is that in this film, there's a clear ticking time bomb scenario. They don't have much time to waste. If they waste too much time, the raiders will have arrive by the time they return to Tattooine. That adds a certain tension to the proceedings. If there are light scenes in the film, they probably resemble those in the original trilogy rather the ones in the films that were actually made.
 
The whole movie is tense. In fact that is one big way that it not only differs from the OTL prequels but from the original movies as well. I do not think there are any light or funny scenes in his Seven Jedi.

The family relations become clear if you want to respect what the original movies said but not have Luke and Obi-Wan as blood relations.

There oughta be at least some light hearted scenes.
 

Glen

Moderator
I will not say that there are no moments in the film in which the tension lightens briefly for a slightly comedic moment. For example, you have the fish out of water element when Owen and Beru arrive on Coruscant. And then you have the accent thing. Granted you probably aren't going to see any Jar Jar style farce. The biggest difference is that in this film, there's a clear ticking time bomb scenario. They don't have much time to waste. If they waste too much time, the raiders will have arrive by the time they return to Tattooine. That adds a certain tension to the proceedings. If there are light scenes in the film, they probably resemble those in the original trilogy rather the ones in the films that were actually made.

Remember they had a ticking time bomb in Star Wars as well essentially, but there were still some humor.
 
Almost as quickly as production finished on Attack of the Clones, the writing process for the second film began. By 1996, Kasdan had produced a rough draft of the next film. Then entitled, Star Wars: The Retaliation, Kasdan’s original draft is fairly similar to the film that was eventually released. Even as early as the final draft of Episode I was written, Lucas and Kasdan had decided to turn Lord Panaka into a villain of sorts. That decision had colored the casting process. Reportedly, Christopher Eccleston received the role because of his ability to portray both the sympathetic and distasteful parts of the Panaka character. As Spielberg noted in an interview shortly before the release of Revenge of the Sith, “Panaka couldn’t be a complete moustache twirling sort of character. No, he had to be sympathetic. The audience is supposed to know he’s wrong, but still respect him for why he’s wrong. I know, that’s a bit confusing. He’s a very noble sort of villain. He’s a tragic figure in his own right. And I think it’s a really good thing we had the actor playing him we did. In other hands, I don’t know if it would have turned out as well.”

The 1996 draft varies in several key respects from the final product. In reading the early notes about the planned second movie, one if struck by how disjointed it seems. The first draft is essentially an attempt to tell two movies at once. Unlike in the final product, the proposed draft does a poor job of connecting its two major threads. As in the actual Revenge of the Sith, those two major threads are Anakin’s story-which mainly involves the fate of Utapau and Queen Padme, and Obi-Wan Kenobi’s attempt to ward off an invasion of Aldeeraan. The difference is that in this draft, the two fights are not as intimately connected as they are in the film that was released in 2000. The other difference, between this draft and the final product that one immediately notices is how different the Sebulba character is in this draft.

Here, his personality is almost indistinguishable from that of Han Solo. Indeed, if anything, the original draft’s Sebulba was meaner than Harrison Ford’s character ever was in the original trilogy. At one point, he threatens to kill Anakin outright, and the circumstances are such that there is no reason to suspect that he is making an idle threat. The Sebulba character would be a major point of contention while the script for the second film was being written.

From the earliest period in Revenge of the Sith's pre-preproduction George Lucas was insisting upon an all CGI character that would play a major part in the plot. It was clear that such a character would appear, the idea of a CGI character was one thing from which Lucas would not budge. There was no question that a prominent all CGI character would appear in the film. The only question was who that character would be. Early on, the proposed character was given the name Sebulba, but in the first notes and drafts, there was precious little consensus on precisely who or what Sebulba was supposed to be. In some drafts, he was an almost villainous character, in others he’s a slapstick transplant, in still others, he’s Panaka’s even more ambivalent right hand man.

Everyone who had a major role in determining such things had different views on the matter. Kasdan wanted Sebulba to be akin to Han Solo, as we see in Kasdan’s draft. Lucas wanted a more farcical approach. Lucas wanted Sebulba to be a kind of slapstick comedy character. It was not one of Lucas’ best ideas. Indeed, it was akin to his one-time insistence that C-3PO ought to be played like a used car salesmen stereotype. Spielberg, on the other hand, had his own ideas concerning Sebulba. Partially he agreed with Lucas, he wanted Sebulba to be a far more innocent character than Kasdan originally envisioned. Spielberg reportedly thought of Sebulba as a representation of Anakin’s lost innocence. In effect, Spielberg thought of Sebulba as what Anakin had been before he was a Jedi.

The film’s director disagreed with both Lucas and Kasdan. Spielberg wanted Sebulba to have a certain degree of dignity to him, even if he were used at points in the film as comic relief. He claimed that having an outright slapstick character now, with tensions in the plot being what they were, would simply distract the audience. Comic relief was one thing, but if Sebulba was too comedic, the film might suffer from tonal whiplash. Lucas disagreed, arguing that the slapstick involved in Sebulba’s character was essential for establishing the calm before the storm element in the second film. He argued that the impression of lightening tension, of recovery, in short, that the situation was improving, ought to be given by the second film in order to emphasize the tragedy in the final film the trilogy. While there was general agreement that the film should be more optimistic in tone than the first film had been, there was disagreement over whether to use Sebulba to actually create that more optimistic tone. He also disagreed with Kasdan, arguing that Sebulba should not be too similar to any character who had already appeared. Spielberg believed that Kasdan's conception was simply too close to Han Solo, and reading Kasdan's original draft, it is easy to see how he came to that conclusion.

While the general plot was decided upon relatively quickly, deciding upon Sebulba took a considerable amount of time. All of that consideration was probably for the best. Today Sebulba remains one of the more popular characters from the prequels, and he has a prominent place in the expanded universe along with the rest of his species. Conceivably, the too many cooks situation could have hurt his character immensely had no real consensus been reached. But of course, a consensus was reached, and no member of the production tried to sabotage that vision. Once the Sebulba character had been decided upon, the other elements in the plot began to fall into place. While Owen and Beru would not be appearing in the film, the rest of the major cast from the first film would be reprising their roles. Aside from the voice casting for Sebulba, the only major new casting decision would be who would play the part of Bail Organa. It was a decision that would merit intense consideration given the importance of Organa in the film’s proposed plot.
 
I will not say that there are no moments in the film in which the tension lightens briefly for a slightly comedic moment. For example, you have the fish out of water element when Owen and Beru arrive on Coruscant. And then you have the accent thing. Granted you probably aren't going to see any Jar Jar style farce. The biggest difference is that in this film, there's a clear ticking time bomb scenario. They don't have much time to waste. If they waste too much time, the raiders will have arrive by the time they return to Tattooine. That adds a certain tension to the proceedings. If there are light scenes in the film, they probably resemble those in the original trilogy rather the ones in the films that were actually made.

Good, that's the kind of spirit that the prequels probably should have kept.
 
While the general plot was decided upon relatively quickly, deciding upon Sebulba took a considerable amount of time. All of that consideration was probably for the best. Today Sebulba remains one of the more popular characters from the prequels, and he has a prominent place in the expanded universe along with the rest of his species. Conceivably, the too many cooks situation could have hurt his character immensely had no real consensus been reached. But of course, a consensus was reached, and no member of the production tried to sabotage that vision. Once the Sebulba character had been decided upon, the other elements in the plot began to fall into place.
Ah, if only somebody had been able to rein in Lucas's ideas OTL.

Keep up the good work.
 

Glen

Moderator
Almost as quickly as production finished on Attack of the Clones, the writing process for the second film began. By 1996, Kasdan had produced a rough draft of the next film. Then entitled, Star Wars: The Retaliation,

The Retaliation? Where did that comee from?

Kasdan’s original draft is fairly similar to the film that was eventually released. Even as early as the final draft of Episode I was written, Lucas and Kasdan had decided to turn Lord Panaka into a villain of sorts. That decision had colored the casting process. Reportedly, Christopher Eccleston received the role because of his ability to portray both the sympathetic and distasteful parts of the Panaka character. As Spielberg noted in an interview shortly before the release of Revenge of the Sith, “Panaka couldn’t be a complete moustache twirling sort of character. No, he had to be sympathetic. The audience is supposed to know he’s wrong, but still respect him for why he’s wrong. I know, that’s a bit confusing. He’s a very noble sort of villain. He’s a tragic figure in his own right. And I think it’s a really good thing we had the actor playing him we did. In other hands, I don’t know if it would have turned out as well.”

I can't wait to see what you have in store for Eccleston as this villianous Panaka.

The 1996 draft varies in several key respects from the final product. In reading the early notes about the planned second movie, one if struck by how disjointed it seems. The first draft is essentially an attempt to tell two movies at once. Unlike in the final product, the proposed draft does a poor job of connecting its two major threads. As in the actual Revenge of the Sith,

So this is what the title will become, yes?

those two major threads are Anakin’s story-which mainly involves the fate of Utapau and Queen Padme, and Obi-Wan Kenobi’s attempt to ward off an invasion of Aldeeraan. The difference is that in this draft, the two fights are not as intimately connected as they are in the film that was released in 2000.

Okay.

The other difference, between this draft and the final product that one immediately notices is how different the Sebulba character is in this draft.

Here, his personality is almost indistinguishable from that of Han Solo. Indeed, if anything, the original draft’s Sebulba was meaner than Harrison Ford’s character ever was in the original trilogy. At one point, he threatens to kill Anakin outright, and the circumstances are such that there is no reason to suspect that he is making an idle threat. The Sebulba character would be a major point of contention while the script for the second film was being written.

So sorta what I do with Jar-Jar in my prequels, though maybe a bit darker.

From the earliest period in Revenge of the Sith's pre-preproduction George Lucas was insisting upon an all CGI character that would play a major part in the plot. It was clear that such a character would appear, the idea of a CGI character was one thing from which Lucas would not budge. There was no question that a prominent all CGI character would appear in the film. The only question was who that character would be. Early on, the proposed character was given the name Sebulba, but in the first notes and drafts, there was precious little consensus on precisely who or what Sebulba was supposed to be. In some drafts, he was an almost villainous character, in others he’s a slapstick transplant, in still others, he’s Panaka’s even more ambivalent right hand man.

Agaiun, the CGI thing - sort of a Jar-Jar stand-in.

Everyone who had a major role in determining such things had different views on the matter. Kasdan wanted Sebulba to be akin to Han Solo, as we see in Kasdan’s draft.

Basically my approach to Jar-Jar.

Lucas wanted a more farcical approach. Lucas wanted Sebulba to be a kind of slapstick comedy character. It was not one of Lucas’ best ideas. Indeed, it was akin to his one-time insistence that C-3PO ought to be played like a used car salesmen stereotype.

Basically George Lucas' approach to Jar-Jar IOTL<argh>.

Spielberg, on the other hand, had his own ideas concerning Sebulba. Partially he agreed with Lucas, he wanted Sebulba to be a far more innocent character than Kasdan originally envisioned. Spielberg reportedly thought of Sebulba as a representation of Anakin’s lost innocence. In effect, Spielberg thought of Sebulba as what Anakin had been before he was a Jedi.

An interesting thought.

The film’s director disagreed with both Lucas and Kasdan. Spielberg wanted Sebulba to have a certain degree of dignity to him, even if he were used at points in the film as comic relief. He claimed that having an outright slapstick character now, with tensions in the plot being what they were, would simply distract the audience.

Amen, brother!

Comic relief was one thing, but if Sebulba was too comedic, the film might suffer from tonal whiplash. Lucas disagreed, arguing that the slapstick involved in Sebulba’s character was essential for establishing the calm before the storm element in the second film. He argued that the impression of lightening tension, of recovery, in short, that the situation was improving, ought to be given by the second film in order to emphasize the tragedy in the final film the trilogy. While there was general agreement that the film should be more optimistic in tone than the first film had been, there was disagreement over whether to use Sebulba to actually create that more optimistic tone. He also disagreed with Kasdan, arguing that Sebulba should not be too similar to any character who had already appeared. Spielberg believed that Kasdan's conception was simply too close to Han Solo, and reading Kasdan's original draft, it is easy to see how he came to that conclusion.

Hey, what's wrong with alien Han?:rolleyes:

While the general plot was decided upon relatively quickly, deciding upon Sebulba took a considerable amount of time. All of that consideration was probably for the best. Today Sebulba remains one of the more popular characters from the prequels, and he has a prominent place in the expanded universe along with the rest of his species. Conceivably, the too many cooks situation could have hurt his character immensely had no real consensus been reached. But of course, a consensus was reached, and no member of the production tried to sabotage that vision. Once the Sebulba character had been decided upon, the other elements in the plot began to fall into place.

Well, it should be interesting to see your take on this character.

While Owen and Beru would not be appearing in the film, the rest of the major cast from the first film would be reprising their roles. Aside from the voice casting for Sebulba, the only major new casting decision would be who would play the part of Bail Organa. It was a decision that would merit intense consideration given the importance of Organa in the film’s proposed plot.

Ah, can't wait to hear your casting choices for these!
 
The Retaliation? Where did that comee from?



I can't wait to see what you have in store for Eccleston as this villianous Panaka.
I was trying to think of a good first draft title, akin to Star Wars: The Beginning. I picked "The Retaliation" as the name of the movie because that's what the plot is more or less about, how Maul and the Confederates respond to their defeat in Episode I, and how the Jedi and the Republic respond to their actions. Regarding Panaka, I hope I do not disappoint you there.



So this is what the title will become, yes?
Yes, that's the title.



I actually think I know how to do this now, or at least have the general idea. I hate to be coy, but it involves Panaka's role in the film, which I am not ready to spoil yet. Of course, if you think there's some practical problem I can always edit the plot to fix it.




Again, the CGI thing - sort of a Jar-Jar stand-in.
Yes, my impression is that, even if he collaborated, there would be certain things Lucas would insist on, and a CGI character is one of them.




Hey, what's wrong with alien Han?:rolleyes:
Nothing, I am merely trying to depict the argument over Sebulba, namely, Kasdan wants a very dark kind of character, a kind of nearly evil Han Solo, Spielberg wants a more optimistic and friendly character, and Lucas wants a clown. Dark, Lighter, Lightest. It's also about ensuring that characters have their own individual personalities, and in Kasdan's script, aside from some really dark moments, his personality isn't unique enough. And that's the issue, ensuring Sebulba is a unique and memorable character in his own right. I am not trying to criticize the direction you go with it in your version, because your Jar Jar is different enough from Han to be unique.



Ah, can't wait to hear your casting choices for these!

One of my ideas regarding Bail is that his personality is somewhat similar to that of his future adopted daughter. Again, not totally the same, but enough so that you can tell being raised as an Organa had an impact on Leia's personality.
 

Glen

Moderator
I was trying to think of a good first draft title, akin to Star Wars: The Beginning. I picked "The Retaliation" as the name of the movie because that's what the plot is more or less about, how Maul and the Confederates respond to their defeat in Episode I, and how the Jedi and the Republic respond to their actions.

Fair enough.

Regarding Panaka, I hope I do not disappoint you there.

I'm not worried.

Yes, that's the title.

I actually think I know how to do this now, or at least have the general idea. I hate to be coy, but it involves Panaka's role in the film, which I am not ready to spoil yet.

No worries...

Of course, if you think there's some practical problem I can always edit the plot to fix it.

Only if it is something that improves your vision...

Yes, my impression is that, even if he collaborated, there would be certain things Lucas would insist on, and a CGI character is one of them.

Agreed.

Nothing, I am merely trying to depict the argument over Sebulba, namely, Kasdan wants a very dark kind of character, a kind of nearly evil Han Solo, Spielberg wants a more optimistic and friendly character, and Lucas wants a clown. Dark, Lighter, Lightest. It's also about ensuring that characters have their own individual personalities, and in Kasdan's script, aside from some really dark moments, his personality isn't unique enough. And that's the issue, ensuring Sebulba is a unique and memorable character in his own right. I am not trying to criticize the direction you go with it in your version, because your Jar Jar is different enough from Han to be unique.

I am glad you find him unique enough - I didn't think you were criticizing my direction, just found some of the parallels interesting.

One of my ideas regarding Bail is that his personality is somewhat similar to that of his future adopted daughter. Again, not totally the same, but enough so that you can tell being raised as an Organa had an impact on Leia's personality.

I really rather like this idea.
 
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