Settlement of the Canary Islands during the Byzantine era

Is it possible for there to be sustained settlement of the Canary islands from the Byzantine era (it was known at least since Juba II during the era of Octavian/Julius Caesar). Leading to the establishment of an island kingdom that survives and trades with the Islamic world and Christian europe throughout the era of the N. African Caliphates maybe with refugees from N. Africa and Iberia immigrating and sustaining a Byzantine church.

Spreading the Byzantine rite (their version anyway) to parts of W/Africa such that it is extremely difficult if nay impossible to justify the slave trade by (pious) Europeans when the Americas are discovered
 
If they actually started a colony I think it would survive fine. I don't think they'd do much cultural spreading though. Probably more like the Mediterranean islands, strategically placed but not politically or militarily powerful when compared to mainland states. The biggest threat would probably be pirates from both Europe and Africa with some conquest attempts from North Africa in the 15-16th century (or from Christian Spain/Portugal)

They're probably going to be some of the premier sailors in Europe though, so they've got that going for them. As pirates themselves they're probably going to be holy terrors to Spain and Morocco and I can actually see them becoming instrumental in the slave trade themselves because of their strategic position.
 

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Canary Islanders emigrated at a very high rate during Spanish colonization, so even if the Greek Canary Islands become part of Spain, there could be a sizable Hellenized minority that would be influential in Latin America.
 
What's to say this settlement, along with any traces of Greek Orthodox Christianity left behind, wouldn't end up being wiped out like what happened in Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco?
 
If they actually started a colony I think it would survive fine. I don't think they'd do much cultural spreading though. Probably more like the Mediterranean islands, strategically placed but not politically or militarily powerful when compared to mainland states. The biggest threat would probably be pirates from both Europe and Africa with some conquest attempts from North Africa in the 15-16th century (or from Christian Spain/Portugal)

They're probably going to be some of the premier sailors in Europe though, so they've got that going for them. As pirates themselves they're probably going to be holy terrors to Spain and Morocco and I can actually see them becoming instrumental in the slave trade themselves because of their strategic position.

I see what you mean, but I personally was thinking along the lines of it being a sugar colony, alongside Sicily. Maybe settlement begins around the time of the Arab invasions but before the fall of Egypt. It would serve as an alternative source of sugar and if there's trade with W/Africa access to some pepper species native to W/Africa. As to them restoring to piracy, it does seem quite probable but I was thinking that trading would prove more profitable as they develop something of a monopoly on the non-islamic spice trade at least early on.
 
What's to say this settlement, along with any traces of Greek Orthodox Christianity left behind, wouldn't end up being wiped out like what happened in Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco?

That I can't necessarily argue with, but if enough people leave North Africa to the Canaries, my hope was they'd develop a navy strong enough to maintain their independence maybe just pay tribute the the caliphs and maintain themselves as a client state of sorts. If sugar & spices are their main trade product then from an economic standpoint there's no need for the early Arabic empires to take over the islands. They control the exist points and main source of sugar and spices at this point prior to the Portuguese exploration. The islands would likely depopulate if the taken over by the early caliphates or resort to piracy.
 
If these islands were well-known, wouldn't there be a chance the Arabs would end up launching expeditions to take them?

Edit: Kind of ninja'd.
 
Would be interesting to have Afro-Roman Christians speaking Afro/Berbero-Romance in the Canaries if the Byzantine settlers came from North Africa. Maybe they start some sort of Reconquista from the islands against the Moors
 
I mean, it's possible, but what would be the motivation? Spain had a notoriously hard time trying to conquer the Canaries in OTL, why should the Byzantines spend considerable resources in its conquest?
 
I mean, it's possible, but what would be the motivation? Spain had a notoriously hard time trying to conquer the Canaries in OTL, why should the Byzantines spend considerable resources in its conquest?

Rather than outright conquest it's be settlement of certain parts of the islands and walled off cities and then overtime with Byzantine influx, we develop a syncretic culture of the native Guanches and the Byzantines.
 
I mean, it's possible, but what would be the motivation? Spain had a notoriously hard time trying to conquer the Canaries in OTL, why should the Byzantines spend considerable resources in its conquest?

All I can think of is just people fleeing westward from the Muslims. Maybe it’s a prolonged conquest instead of a quick one so we see movements westward of fleeing Christians
 
Would be interesting to have Afro-Roman Christians speaking Afro/Berbero-Romance in the Canaries if the Byzantine settlers came from North Africa. Maybe they start some sort of Reconquista from the islands against the Moors
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Macronesia one of the worst places to project power from? They lack metal and they're too far away to really launch major campaigns against anyone.

Now what might be interesting would be if this colony gets cut off from trade by the Muslim invasion and starts looking westward for resources. An independent, united, Roman Macronesia is unlikely (awesome as that would be), but disunited settlements throughout the Atlantic possibly reaching the Americas? That might work. Emphasis on might.

A really interesting thing would be if some of the settlements get cut off from contact completely and still keep thinking of themselves as subjects of an empire that doesn't even remember they exist. Or perhaps doesn't exist anymore itself. Or you might get something like OTL Greenland, where the settlers are wiped out by something and their ruins are rediscovered centuries later by their former suzerains.
 
Is it possible for there to be sustained settlement of the Canary islands from the Byzantine era (it was known at least since Juba II during the era of Octavian/Julius Caesar). Leading to the establishment of an island kingdom that survives and trades with the Islamic world and Christian europe throughout the era of the N. African Caliphates maybe with refugees from N. Africa and Iberia immigrating and sustaining a Byzantine church.

Spreading the Byzantine rite (their version anyway) to parts of W/Africa such that it is extremely difficult if nay impossible to justify the slave trade by (pious) Europeans when the Americas are discovered

If it survives as an independent/autonomous state, but East Roman Empire loses their connection after the conquest of Carthage then the church on the islands is more likely to join Rome. Eventually, they need help and those who could threaten the Islamic neighbour in Morocco is most likely a Catholic state (France and Normans from the late 11th century, Aragon, Portugal and Castille later)

This all, if the islands aren't conquered by the Emirs/Sultan in Morocco. The islands being Christian and having connection with the East Roman Empire makes it more attractive for the Islamic forces to invade it. And lying behind 'enemy' lines does not really help.
 
That I can't necessarily argue with, but if enough people leave North Africa to the Canaries, my hope was they'd develop a navy strong enough to maintain their independence maybe just pay tribute the the caliphs and maintain themselves as a client state of sorts. If sugar & spices are their main trade product then from an economic standpoint there's no need for the early Arabic empires to take over the islands. They control the exist points and main source of sugar and spices at this point prior to the Portuguese exploration. The islands would likely depopulate if the taken over by the early caliphates or resort to piracy.

Being vassals is the best they get, up until a strong Christian nation appears West of Iberia or the Normans find the islands. Building a strong navy needs supplies as well. That is a problem if you need it from the mainland. The islands will have to pay tribute as a vassal to get the navy done.

The very least until the Umayyads collapse. The Almoravids and Almohads will fear Iberian Christians more than desire the islands.
 
I can see them more as piracy havens than commerce hubs. The islands have no significant natural resources and can sustain a relatively low population (30'000 on Gran Canaria at the time of the conquest and it was considered rather high).

Regardless of religion or navigational skills, what's the push to make the place not just a somewhat accessible Atlantic Easter Island?
 
The islands have no significant natural resources and can sustain a relatively low population (30'000 on Gran Canaria at the time of the conquest and it was considered rather high).

It may have been high considered high based on the locals' technology and general lack of any sailing ability but by 1750 (the earliest data I could find) the population was about 150,000. Depending on when the colony is settled I'd expect we'd get nearer to those number far sooner, possibly in the 14 or 1500's. Looking at Majorca which had stable a population of ~97,000 between 1580 and 1670 I would expect the Canaries to support at least that many since the islands are double in size.

Also the Canaries were an exporter of high quality wines and dyes for a long time (and then later sugar) so there is at least some resources
 
It may have been high considered high based on the locals' technology and general lack of any sailing ability but by 1750 (the earliest data I could find) the population was about 150,000. Depending on when the colony is settled I'd expect we'd get nearer to those number far sooner, possibly in the 14 or 1500's. Looking at Majorca which had stable a population of ~97,000 between 1580 and 1670 I would expect the Canaries to support at least that many since the islands are double in size.

Also the Canaries were an exporter of high quality wines and dyes for a long time (and then later sugar) so there is at least some resources

That's what i'm trying to get at, sugar cultivation (not sure wines would be that profitable to them at this point, unsure about the dye industry) would be introduced with settlement, so the canaries and sicily would serve as alternate sources of sugar for europe when the near east is lost. Arguably ships capable of reaching the canaries should be able the skirt the african coast maybe up to the mouth of the senegal river if not further and up to Iberia maybe the atlantic coast of france. I don't see them forming permanent settlements in more sub-saharan africa but they might be able to form a profitable alternate trade route for W/African peppers, gold and Ivory to europe as opposed to the land route.
I'm thinking the islamic empires at the time would have little incentive to take over the islands as the main route with the bulk of goods will still be via the sahara. On maintaining links to christian europe especially prior to the reconquista during the islamic golden era, i think the most difficult part might be the 40yr era of Umayyad iberia from 710ish to 750ish as Korpulu alluded to earlier.

We could possibly see syncretic forms of the byzantine rite in some parts of w/africa and if successful enough large swaths, I also recognise that given the era trading in slaves would likely occur but I'm going in with the mindset that earlier exposures to trading with europeans via the canaries leads to cultural and technological (especially tech, less interested in the cultural) exchanges that would disincetivise the practice of exporting slaves (use them in your own territories to maintain your empires, eventually abolish the practice when no longer profitable). The byzatine/berber canaries & europe may see sub-saharan africans as allies against incursions from the arabs, hire them as mercenaries, form alliances etc encouraging technology exchanges.
We could potentially see

- earlier introduction of different forms of weaponry (armoured suits not helpful, but sturdier lances)
- writing system as an alternative to the islamic script or development of indigenous writing scripts with byzantine influence
- more w/african empires & polities like Mali, possibly earlier or stabilising of earlier polities like Ghana empire in the region. Basis of this is the introduction of horses strengthened regional players like the caliphates of now Northern Nigeria and the Oyo. W/Africa isn't that suitable to horses actually because of disease but earlier introductions with a stable supply would lead to earlier spread and devt of local strains more resistant to disease. The lessens pressure to trade people for horses (a factor in the slave trade)
-earlier introduction of gunpowder later on.

This is a rosy picture I'm painting so do critique but I hope you'll also be open minded.
 
My guess is the majority of the Guanche would die of disease and would be replaced by Christian settlers from North Africa. The Byzantines don't have a lot of need for pagans who probably aren't too pleased with the Byzantine conquest.

These North African Christian settlers would probably be mainly speakers of African Romance, along with some Libyan/Berbers (especially if Numidia or Mauretania are the main sending provinces) and Punic. Elements of Guanche culture would survive as well, creating a heavily Berber-influenced Romance language (in addition to the Punic influence already in the language) which probably wouldn't bear much resemblance to any other Romance language.

Religiously, as the Byzantine Empire loses North Africa and Italy, they'll turn more Latinate and focused on Rome I'd think. It would also be interesting to see the contact they'd keep with the declining North African church under Islamic rule.

They're probably going to be some of the premier sailors in Europe though, so they've got that going for them. As pirates themselves they're probably going to be holy terrors to Spain and Morocco and I can actually see them becoming instrumental in the slave trade themselves because of their strategic position.

They'd probably find and colonise Madeira before long. Maybe with luck the Azores. I'd love to see Bermuda too, but that's asking a bit too much. Cape Verde is a potential as well toward the south.

Pirates? Since the majority of settlers would probably be North African Christians from former Roman Africa/Numidia, you basically have the same genes that created the Barbary pirates.

That's what i'm trying to get at, sugar cultivation (not sure wines would be that profitable to them at this point, unsure about the dye industry) would be introduced with settlement, so the canaries and sicily would serve as alternate sources of sugar for europe when the near east is lost. Arguably ships capable of reaching the canaries should be able the skirt the african coast maybe up to the mouth of the senegal river if not further and up to Iberia maybe the atlantic coast of france. I don't see them forming permanent settlements in more sub-saharan africa but they might be able to form a profitable alternate trade route for W/African peppers, gold and Ivory to europe as opposed to the land route.
I'm thinking the islamic empires at the time would have little incentive to take over the islands as the main route with the bulk of goods will still be via the sahara. On maintaining links to christian europe especially prior to the reconquista during the islamic golden era, i think the most difficult part might be the 40yr era of Umayyad iberia from 710ish to 750ish as Korpulu alluded to earlier.

We could possibly see syncretic forms of the byzantine rite in some parts of w/africa and if successful enough large swaths, I also recognise that given the era trading in slaves would likely occur but I'm going in with the mindset that earlier exposures to trading with europeans via the canaries leads to cultural and technological (especially tech, less interested in the cultural) exchanges that would disincetivise the practice of exporting slaves (use them in your own territories to maintain your empires, eventually abolish the practice when no longer profitable). The byzatine/berber canaries & europe may see sub-saharan africans as allies against incursions from the arabs, hire them as mercenaries, form alliances etc encouraging technology exchanges.
We could potentially see

- earlier introduction of different forms of weaponry (armoured suits not helpful, but sturdier lances)
- writing system as an alternative to the islamic script or development of indigenous writing scripts with byzantine influence
- more w/african empires & polities like Mali, possibly earlier or stabilising of earlier polities like Ghana empire in the region. Basis of this is the introduction of horses strengthened regional players like the caliphates of now Northern Nigeria and the Oyo. W/Africa isn't that suitable to horses actually because of disease but earlier introductions with a stable supply would lead to earlier spread and devt of local strains more resistant to disease. The lessens pressure to trade people for horses (a factor in the slave trade)
-earlier introduction of gunpowder later on.

This is a rosy picture I'm painting so do critique but I hope you'll also be open minded.

Dye would be huge, it was a very important industry to the Spanish.

It would be the coastal regions around Senegal that would have the most influence from these Canarians, including possibly Christianity and Latin script. More inland areas, like Mali, would still be under the influence of the trans-Saharan Moroccan Muslims.
 
My guess is the majority of the Guanche would die of disease and would be replaced by Christian settlers from North Africa. The Byzantines don't have a lot of need for pagans who probably aren't too pleased with the Byzantine conquest.

These North African Christian settlers would probably be mainly speakers of African Romance, along with some Libyan/Berbers (especially if Numidia or Mauretania are the main sending provinces) and Punic. Elements of Guanche culture would survive as well, creating a heavily Berber-influenced Romance language (in addition to the Punic influence already in the language) which probably wouldn't bear much resemblance to any other Romance language.

Religiously, as the Byzantine Empire loses North Africa and Italy, they'll turn more Latinate and focused on Rome I'd think. It would also be interesting to see the contact they'd keep with the declining North African church under Islamic rule.



They'd probably find and colonise Madeira before long. Maybe with luck the Azores. I'd love to see Bermuda too, but that's asking a bit too much. Cape Verde is a potential as well toward the south.

Pirates? Since the majority of settlers would probably be North African Christians from former Roman Africa/Numidia, you basically have the same genes that created the Barbary pirates.



Dye would be huge, it was a very important industry to the Spanish.

It would be the coastal regions around Senegal that would have the most influence from these Canarians, including possibly Christianity and Latin script. More inland areas, like Mali, would still be under the influence of the trans-Saharan Moroccan Muslims.

On diseases affecting the Guanche, why so? the only disease that could possibly be of great impact would be the plague which isn't until the middle ages. I'd imagine given how old small pox is and the genetic links between the berbers and the gaunche peoples they'd have been exposed to smallpox at some point long before the era to which I refer (600-650AD and beyond).

I gave the inland empires as examples of my theory, though i agree with you. We could also see a situation where the coastal kingdoms that develop expand militarily inland and the technology has alternate routes to spread.

Oh and another potential population source could be the Visigoths. I think byzantine culture might win out though.
 
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