A superb ending to a superb TL. Congratulations on finishing it!Phew! 140,000~ words, 295 pictures, and a year and a half of writing and we are finally at the end.
To think that I originally envisioned this as map series! :lol:
Thanks to all of my readers for your encouragement and feedback.
I'm going to reread The Space Pirate King, build up a bit of a buffer for it, and then get it launched again- on SV only I'm afraid. It was a difficult decision, but while I will continue to follow TLs over here and post occasionally, for personal reasons I am transitioning my writing away from AH.com.
Happy New Year, y'all!
Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
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How involved and competent would the occupation be anyway? And I hope they are sane enough to not use nukes on Indochina since they already had countless examples of radiation poisoning in Japan and the Near East.
No regrets for Russia though, it'll be done upon them what they just did with the ethnic minorities that used to live within their borders.
Nobility for all! The Free Commonwealth forever!
How big is the Chinese nuclear arsenal if they plan to nuke Russia, its allies, and Drakia at the same time.
From a stategic point of view, they only need to hit Russia and Drakia to achieve their goals, Russia's allies are either militarily weak or Russia's unwilling partners.
@Ephraim Ben Raphael firstly congratulations on the completion of such an immense project. It really was a joy reading through it. I did have a question about the aftermath of the Final War, specifically about the artificial ionosphere that Situationist China placed during the height of the Silent War - was it destroyed entirely or did it survive and continue to work after the Fall of Drakia. In a similar vein what does China's current space program look like?
both Drakia and Russia re very weak and depopulated, with a ruined infrastructure, they would only need to hit the few important centers of government and everything will fall.
Here's a quote on EBR on the SV thread about Separated at Birth.
"Thank you! Some people are working on the bomb, but so far its taken a backseat to more pressing issues and both Russia and the New Alliance have prioritized getting space bombers back over getting a more powerful bomb to put in them. Currently the only nuclear powers are China and the USA."
So apparently China's facing down it's own version of the 50's Soviet Union; they have more nuclear bombs, but the USA is attempting to oppose them.
also why is there a freedman state in Antartica?
"Thank you! Some people are working on the bomb, but so far its taken a backseat to more pressing issues and both Russia and the New Alliance have prioritized getting space bombers back over getting a more powerful bomb to put in them. Currently the only nuclear powers are China and the USA."
So apparently China's facing down it's own version of the 50's Soviet Union; they have more nuclear bombs, but the USA is attempting to oppose them.
also why is there a freedman state in Antartica?
According the description when the Drakia abandoned Antartica they just left the Bondsmen there behind to die. They apparently survived/
I'm curious how quickly the other powers will be able to catch up with nuclear technology. The Second Wave Situationists don't seem keen to share.
The concept of a single nuclear power with the clear willingness to use them is a terrifying concept, even if they're a somewhat benevolent power like China here...
The concept of a single nuclear power with the clear willingness to use them is a terrifying concept, even if they're a somewhat benevolent power like China here...
xsampa
Banned
NOTE: the US also has nukes, but it reminds me of the A4 from AANW but with a clear ideology, and US-La Plata/AFD as India and its CIS
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Yeah, this is more like it. The USA wouldn't like a war of any form with anybody, as shown with them relenting on New France and Sookobitu's existence. With Burma and India also being dictatorships in all but name, the AfD would be also be totally willing to throw them under the bus if it meant that the two would shut the hell up on China's plans to tackle the Societist problem
As I've said above, the Chinese wouldn't be stupid enough to ruin what little goodwill it had with the South East Asian AfD with the already well-documented after-effects of nuclear weaponry, and it'll just be more like a Falklands scenario, or so I hope.
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A great conclusion to a great TL.
You've envisioned a harsh world, one that makes me think we got lucky with OTL, in many ways. You've written some very intriguing characters (Klein!), and you've managed to complete a massive project and put that cherry on top with everything in great looking order. Congratulations and thank you.
I greatly enjoyed reading it and while I'm sad to see you go I may have to dig into some of your older projects and follow you on SV.
Also this:
You've envisioned a harsh world, one that makes me think we got lucky with OTL, in many ways. You've written some very intriguing characters (Klein!), and you've managed to complete a massive project and put that cherry on top with everything in great looking order. Congratulations and thank you.
I greatly enjoyed reading it and while I'm sad to see you go I may have to dig into some of your older projects and follow you on SV.
Also this:
You just can't resist, can you!
Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
Thank you.
Not for long, and yes.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! What's your Draka story?
I posted a teaser earlier in the thread. It's a small town ISOT, a la Grantville, but instead of being a thriving West Virginia coal town it's a dying former California lumber town.
Thanks! Without going into detail, here's a few;
-I was originally planning to have relations between the US and Britain normalize so that they would end up allies for the World War, but that rapidly stopped making sense so I dropped it
-My original plan for La Plata was to have its history be a rough parallel of the OTL United States (federal democracy, civil war resulting in a more centralized government, conquering the southern frontier, a lot less nice to the Natives than the SaB USA, some racial issues to be ironed out later, etc) as part of a plan to actually have things happen in South America that wouldn't be just US/Europe driven and to subvert some tropes about Latin American countries. Ultimately it didn't really fit, and I didn't like how quickly the scope of the TL was expanding, and I didn't do anything with it.
-The American Civil War could have seen an Anglo-Drakian expeditionary force fighting with the CSA, but the dice said no. It was also possible for the ACW to just not happen at all, or for the CSA to win (temporarily).
-If Britain had won the World War then it would have been followed by a massive civil war in the British Empire between "traditionalist" Drakia and the minority-rule Dominions versus pro-reform Britain and the majority-rule ones. While this would have resulted in an independent Drakia no matter what, it was possible (if Drakia got a Nat 20 and Britain got a Nat 1) for most of the British Empire (including Britain and India) to end up part of Drakia. Think evil Imperial Federalism with the ceremonial capital still in London.
-I was not planning for Rhomania to end up one of the bad guys, it just happened because they got that 20 during the World War and ended up with most of the Balkans. From there the evil neo-Byzantine Empire just kind of happened naturally.
-If the rolls had gone differently the First Draco-American War/Judeo-Arab Revolt could have ended with Drakia losing the entire Middle East. There would have been an independent Judea (with borders referencing Hebrewland in Gomberg's map) and an Arab Union including Iraq and Syria. Jewish/Arab relations would have deteriorated after the war over territorial disputes and memories that the Jews had in fact collaborated with the Empire before rebelling against it, and would have played a roll in the breakdown of American hegemony and the New Order of the Ages.
-Of course America's post-World War hegemony wasn't inevitable at all.
-If things had gone differently the Pact of Blood could have formed as an explicit anti-AfD or anti-Surviving Grand Alliance bloc- in the case of the latter they really would have ended up incorporating non-Societist types opposed to American imperialism (I kept a little of that anyway)
-The Situationists could have won in Britain, or they could have destabilized the regime so much that Susan invited Drakia in to save himself, resulting in Britain being directly incorporated into the Empire
-China was always going to emerge as a major power towards the end of the TL one way or another, I even contemplated a China-led Confederation of East Asia before deciding against it.
-Drakia could have conquered the Pan-Europeans entirely if the dice had given it to them. They would have directly incorporated Italy and established puppet governments in France and Germany- the French one a kingdom under the Legitimist heir to the French throne. Under no circumstances could they have gotten Scandinavia though.
-I did not plan for Centroamerica to be depopulated by Stone Dogs and reincorporated into the USA. The plan was for Centroamerica to become and then remain independent as an example of Manifest Destiny colliding with reality and to subvert a possible "magic United States of Mary Sue" narrative. Then they fumbled.
-There was supposed to be a big international environmentalist movement affiliated with the more moderate Geoist strains (a la OTL environmentalism's relationship to Socialism) emerging post Great Wars that would actually end up in control of as couple of countries post-Final War, but I mostly just forgot to include it. The Dravidian Homeland (which is Ecogeoist and only about as oppressive as OTL Cuba) is part of that.
-I originally had plans to keep the TL going until Drakia's final defeat at the hands of a Macedon-analogue (either China or India, most likely) but in the end I didn't see the point
-I have no idea what I actually would have done if Klein pulled off his coup after winning the First Draco-American War and became America's Ceasar
I didn't have a lot of details for the different routes, just vague notes that I filled in as needed.
Better than Africa in the original DRM, but probably not as well as the Domination of the Draka in that other TL. Technology isn't as crazy here (although it's still pretty crazy) and geography would be against them.
Believe it or not, that was entirely unplanned. Britain surviving the Stone Dogs and having a Situationist Revolution (with a tiny monarchist restoration in an independent Manx microstate, but with Britain proper telling the monarchy to shove it) or surviving and ending up part of Drakia were possibilities. Ireland could have been wiped out, suffered badly and then been incorporated into Scandinavia, etc.
Bleak but not as bleak as I was expecting. The world is severely battered and bruised and dealing with scars it may never recover from but still alive at the end of the day. Sad that so many bastards seems to still be kicking about but I guess that's the price that must be paid for avoiding total extinction. Let us hope that China and the Free World do not slip into the evil they hope to destroy and replace one Dragon with another
That really is one of my favorite quotes in fiction, full stop.
On to the next era of history!Thank you!
I'm glad you liked it!
Officially they are sovereign states who are both PPRs and have an EU-esque confederal relationship with a single foreign policy.
Thanks, it seemed like the best way to end things.
Selene is focused on turning a jerry-rigged, ad-hoc production base capable of barely keeping them alive, into something more regular. This does involve some expansion, but I don't think it's the kind of expansion you mean.I mean it's nowhere near as old of a series as WMIT or LTTW, but I'm quite flattered.
Thank you! I wanted to experiment with alternate routes for scientific research, given how technological progress is weird in the Drakaverse and because it really isn't done enough in TLs (except for occasionally putting in airships or something). Unfortunately science and technology are not my areas of expertise, and I did engage in a little "rule of cool" with things like space guns and no rocketry.
However, I am very pleased to hear that despite these things I seem to have succeeded in crafting "one of the most remarkable TL's on the site". *doffs hat*
Danke! I'm glad you enjoyed it. SV is more of a general fiction site of which AH is a small but active section (though less active than here, of course). Bit further to the left than I'd like, but not unfriendly.
I'm guessing patrolling that region is going to make one almost wish for a nuclear winter
Anyway, great final chapter. And although I don't want to wish to sound ungrateful: You didn't write a paragraph about Scandinavia, which should be from what I understand one of the more important players by now with it having weathered the Final War and the Stone Dogs better than most.
Also one question: Any ongoig talks about the Republic of Selene rejoining the USA as a State?
Ah, fair point- I did neglect Scandinavia. The United Kingdom of Scandinavia is indeed one of the New Alliance's more important members and one of the most powerful countries in Europe. With the USA and La Plata limited in their ability to project power across the Atlantic, it's Scandinavia who backs up Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany, and the Old French part of New France in case Russia were to try something. Stockholm can't match Moscow toe to toe, but it is strong enough to make an invasion too expensive to be worth it.
Selene was never a US State (as another poster pointed out it was run by the AfD jointly) and is interested in close ties with its allies on Earth- not political subordination.
Think more Trotskism's call for global revolution.
Both groups were targeted by Freedmen and Drakia's enemies once the empire fell- they were accused of collaboration, culpability in the Stone Dogs, etc. The Yazidis did okay as the small Princely State they'd been given was an enclave of Kurdistan and the Kurds (being a former Martial Race) were not inclined to have problems with them, and even let their state keep some political autonomy. The Roma faced ethnic cleansing at the hands of vengeful Hungarians and Rumanians, the survivors of which mostly sought shelter in Rhomania and Russia.
Not a terribly high bar, given that the original Draka ended with the near extinction of the human race on Earth except for some Congolese pygmies. I'm glad you enjoyed the ride!
I have no idea.
Not at all, shoot me a DM.
To be fair, large parts of it do. About a third of Africa is barely habitable wasteland where there is no government beyond an armed gang, about a fifth is composed of petty dictatorships and walords locked in genocidal warfare, another fifth is controlled by Drakia and the Societist legacy states, another fifth by large authoritarian-but-stable countries, and the rest isn't so bad!
China's plan is unify the human race at least as far as co-operation on environmental and ecological issues goes. That can be done via friendly diplomacy, via the threat of war, via conventional fighting, or with nuclear weapons. Ideally they would keep the use of atomics to a minimum (Ready to surrender yet? Okay, another bomb. How about now? Alright, give me a minute... now?) as they now grasp the kind of damage they can do.
The people of Drakia are to be liberated- from their government, their ideology, and their culture if necessary.
TBH, I'm not sure. Drakia had a base at OTL Esperanza, this would be somewhere else.
I'll still be around, and you're always welcome to check my projects elsewhere.
It really is a relief! A year and a half and I've finished something I'm proud of.
I'll take it, thank you.
Any time, friend! It was a pleasure to work with you.
That's not the plan.
So, the long saga of the battle between the Eagle and the Dragon has finally reached its conclusion. I'm really going to miss following this timeline.
I'm sure, once I've had a chance to recover, I'll miss writing it.
Drakia would like to quietly work on new bioweapons as a strategic deterrent, but the truth is that it lacks the kind of resources and expertise to do high-level bio-warfare research. It has a couple of nasty things left over, but nothing remotely as powerful as the Stone Dogs, and no real way to create new ones.
Polite. The USA is focused on internal matters, and to the degree that it's focused externally it's paying attention to Europe and the Russian sphere (also what's left of Drakia- no one will ever not take them seriously again). Fear and jealousy of China's power is a thing, but it's not currently driving foreign policy.
That's what Thailand does with cockroaches- just fried them in a wok. I'm thinking brown protein powder for westerners who are less willing to eat them when you can see what they are.
Nuclear power is very big in China and the USA (the only other country with nuclear weapons) is investing heavily in that area as well, some other countries are playing catchup. Elsewhere... well, let's say that power shortages are a big problem. Hydroelectric dams were targets during the Final War, a lot of people just don't have access to the resources to make solar work, and there's only so much you can do with wind. Where possible people have rebuilt the dams and many places still use fossil fuels for lack of anything else.
Thanks, dude!
My pleasure!
Free Papua is under a fairly weak and decentralized government put together by surviving Papuans, it's a democracy but struggles to govern the country. The answer for the other three countries is; it's complicated. I go into more detail earlier in this post.
Thank you!
They don't, they hope to use their arsenal to force relatively bloodless surrenders (how well that will work...). About 2,500 A-bombs, maybe two dozen thermonuclear bombs.
The artificial ionosphere is still there! It is still functional, and is still used by many nations across the political spectrum. China's current space program is much more extensive than their old one, they identified space as one of their areas of strategic weakness during the Final War.
The Drakians abandoned them there when they pulled out, and they figured out how to survive on their own. It helped that the pullout was so fast their were left with a lot of stuff.
It was one part of the proposed Atlantropa project, although it's usually overshadowed by the proposal to dam the Mediterranean.
Thank you for reading! It really is a pleasure to write something that is as much of a niche interest as this TL and have people like you not only reading along, but giving me great feedback and compliments.
Ha ha! Never.
xsampa
Banned
Would Drakia have had a shot at avoiding the disintegration and collapse that occurred in SaB in this scenario, since it basically annexed the Empire, and will likely focus on conquering as much of Asia and the Middle East as possible, eliminating India as a potential rival and probably causing trouble for China if they have a 3000-mile long border with Drakia in Tibet and Indochina.EBR said:
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How would Drakia have turned out if Decker had been able to stay in power? One one hand he would have been better than Kobold & definitely better than Dart but on the other hand he probably would have done some seriously horrible stuff. Not of ideology or fanaticism but rather simple pragmatism and long term planning.
I'd imagine that the whole world would have done better than the original DRM but it still would have ended up as a horribly dark place.
On that note, what would a Valois-run Drakia have looked like?
China having an analogous hi-tech and ambiguously atompunk reputation OTL Japan had had just been confirmed:
There had been an informal taboo of sorts in Free China regarding about superweapons - specifically those pertaining to Stone Dogs and Thermonuclear Weaponry. So far, imagery pertaining to those had involved allegory that arouses the observer by unnerving them and disturbing them - and has stood up to be one of the foremost aesthetics in China's vibrant - ly or yet - conflicted pacifist and jingoist movements alike.
By that, I wonder how has robotics progressed so far in this timeline, considering that they would be incredibly useful for clean-ups of all the toxic areas this accursed world had.
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xsampa
Banned
The überDrakia would be a good parallel to Orwell’s Oceania-a super state composed of most of the British Empire except for the New World colonies and maybe Borneo.
In a Brit+CP victory I can see a nonRexist Germany ally with the US to oppose Drakian rule in N. Africa and Britain and even the Geoists and imperial Japan if Russia doesn’t want the Drakia to occupy Persia/Central Asia.
In a Brit+CP victory I can see a nonRexist Germany ally with the US to oppose Drakian rule in N. Africa and Britain and even the Geoists and imperial Japan if Russia doesn’t want the Drakia to occupy Persia/Central Asia.
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It’s atleast going to try making a real life version of a Fallout game.
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