Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
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To go along with @xsampa's idea of Britain becoming an analogue of North Korea, I can see Britain's involvement in the coming war with Drakia being minimal due to how emasculated they've become as a nation. The Societist regime manages to survive the war because deposing them is so far down the list of priorities it's nowhere in sight. Possibly with the regime rebranding themselves to distance themselves from their former masters in Drakia. So the Angsoc* regime limps on for a while like a pathetic version of Franco's Spain before eventually collapsing. Possibly with the monarchy being so tainted by association with the Societists/Angsoc that Britain becomes a Commonwealth under a new Lord/High Protector.
The monarchy fleeing to Australia to continue ruling there is another possibility.
The monarchy fleeing to Australia to continue ruling there is another possibility.
Britain might be important in a war against the US Alliance or Pan-Europe as a naval and aerial base for the Draka.
So I know that a bipolar Protracted Struggle between America and Drakia is inevitable and really the entire point of this thread, but something occurred to me today: it wouldn't be out of the question for a few changes to create a four-way Struggle.
*The bull is normally a symbol of European integration, but in-universe makes a better Geoist metonym. A fight between an Eagle, a Dragon, a Lion and a Starry Plow is less than poetic, you know?
- Factions in Drakia and the New Byzantium, in a bid to make the Rodina a more ideologically cooperative ally, begin supporting Orthodox-tinged Societist elements in Russia in the hopes that backlash to the nation's Khmer-esque woes would produce a counter-revolution.
- In the resulting Second Russian Civil War, the Geoists fall to public anger but the Societists can't capitalize on this support given the Dragon's international reputation (and the horror stories of the new Eastern European bondsmen), ultimately resulting in a Rex Restoration, even if the family tree of the new Tsar is a little dubious.
- Suddenly swollen with victory, the newly christened Pan-Eurasian Defense Pact begins to put pressure on Pobladist Spain. In a twist on OTL Odessa, Spain begins smuggling surviving Rodina loyalists to South America. Cultural osmosis, the new influx of revolutionaries, and distaste for the US turns South America Green in a series of revolutions, while the US and Drakia are left wondering where all their grand plans turned sour.
- In the end the world is fractured. The Rex Lion stands astride Eurasia an overstretched Colossus, the Eagle and the Dragon both fall into an all consuming McCarthyist siege mentality, and the Meridian Bull* schemes to recoup its losses. Each has their ideological exclaves (Societist Britain, Rhomania and Australia; Fascist Ireland and a newly reconciled Japan; Geoist Spain and the Philippines), so the likelihood of a Second World War is higher every day.
*The bull is normally a symbol of European integration, but in-universe makes a better Geoist metonym. A fight between an Eagle, a Dragon, a Lion and a Starry Plow is less than poetic, you know?
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I imagine that they are a less middle-class intellectual analogue of the historical Portuguese Socialist Party.
You can be sure that at the first chance there's going to be a general revolt or even a revolution.
Ephraim Ben Raphael
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Good question! Geoism is green, Socialism/Utopianism is blue, Conservatism/Christian Populism is red, Societism uses red and black, Rex doesn't have a single color but black features prominently in the flag of the Pan-European Pact. There isn't really a color just for Fascism, but the Whig Party uses black and white as its colors.
They're... trying their best. The Congo has a lot of forest.
You know what; death of the author. I'm going to let my readers make up their own minds about Perdue, Richardson, and Klein.
As the Philippines are a Duckling without an independent foreign policy, territorial concessions to the US for military bases, and a sizable USN and USMC presence, yes.
Turkey is following Arabia's lead when it comes to universal militarization and is clinging to the USA and the Grand Alliance as tight as possible. The Ottomans are still around, albeit as constitutional monarchs in a government largely run by the Turkish military.
It's a mainstream political position on the left, but doesn't have majority support yet. Britain being Societist is generally unpopular (although the Australian Societists are for it of course) but the British Monarchy isn't inextricably tied to the movement and has its partisans in Australia.
India is an important regional power- considerably more industrialized than it was at this time in OTL- with a large military even if that military isn't entirely up-to-date. They're certainly no pushover.
Let's see;
The USA (duh)
The Ducklings (just Ireland, the Philippines, and Insulindia now)
France
Czech State
Rumania
Colombia (US puppet)
Peru
Brazil
United Provinces of South America (aka La Plata)
Commonwealth of Guyana (still a British Dominion)
Spanish Republic-in-exile (Puerto Rico)
Republic of Jamaica
Lesser Antilles Federation
Turkey (aka the Ottoman Empire)
Arab Union
Persia
Nam Viet (not super committed)
Malaya (see above)
Borneo (actually anti-US but not allowed to leave the alliance)
Sri Lanka
Maldives
Burma
Cambodia
This is after the departure of a couple of countries like India and Japan that we'll cover in the next chapter.
Please don't feel unwelcome!
We were discussing different approaches to how to write a TL, and I mentioned your Sarawak TL as an example of an excellent TL much of which is written in the form of in-universe sources.
Well their ultimate goal is to unify humanity under the "Final Society" so it's certainly one of their goals.
Your assessment is correct (and we'll talk about it a little bit once I finally get around to the chapter on technology) but Drakia is/was behind the world in terms of armored vehicles but roughly on-par with the rest of the world in terms of aircraft. In general technology for armored vehicles tends to move more slowly when people aren't fighting wars that call for such vehicles, and the fighting since the end of the World War has tended to be in conditions that aren't ideal for tanks.
Quite so! Particularly when it comes to the anti-Geoist former political prisoners- some are even Societists- and there are programs for such white Christian Bondsmen to potentially earn their freedom in as little as a decade depending on how well they convince the authorities that they are loyal and politically reliable.
This is true, I was referring to the parallels between the rise of the English Societists and the rise of the Nazis.
Stop reading my notes!
Essentially, yes.
Oh the Spanish occupation is of course deeply unpopular with almost all segments of Portuguese society and "The Rectangle" still seethes with discontent.
Well clearly a Fascist/Rex alliance just makes sense in the face of senseless aggression from Drakia and the Green International given those colors! They'll wave a checkered flag over Aurica and St. Petersburg both!
You know what; death of the author. I'm going to let my readers make up their own minds about Perdue, Richardson, and Klein.
Klein is a scumbag. He could have just went to switzerland and lived his life quietly free of extradition, or even to Japan or something, but he had to choose Drakia after starting a war just for personal gain. Richardson is more of a grey area, cause he was instrumental in the support of the rebels against Drakia. He probably had some motivations that were noble here.
Perdue I hate the most because, even while he was right to order Klein's arrest, he had a chance to at least force the Drakians down a peg, but instead just gave up and handed everything back to them. At least kick them out of arabia and then clean house in the Navy
Also can I just say that I've really been enjoying this timeline? I caught it when it started but let it slide, but I've been thoroughly invested from the mid 19th century on
Personally, I think people are being a bit harsh on Perdue. Yes, he definitely could have and probably should have taken the initiative to kick the Drakia out of Arabia rather than immediately clean house. However, I want everyone to consider his situation. More specifically, I don't think people are fully appreciative of the ramifications here. The head of the United States Navy declared a war independently of Congress, defied the President, and in general trampled the Constitution. The Constitution has the military under civilian leadership precisely to prevent such actions in the first place because the Founders knew that they inevitably lead to military tyranny.
By shutting down the war and pulling out when he did, Perdue helped Drakia, this is true. However, he also fulfilled his oath of office, which is to protect the Constitution from all enemies, internal and external. If he had pursued Klein's war because he wanted to knock the Drakia down a peg, he would have also set a dangerous precedent. A precedent that would allow independent military commanders to wage wars of choice across the world. There was another republic that gave their commanders similar leeway. It's name was Rome, and we all know how that turned out. Honestly, Klein and his co-conspirators in the Navy and the intelligence community should feel lucky they aren't being lined up against a wall and shot. They arguably deserve it for trashing the Constitution and killing thousands of American soldiers in a war of choice. A war that seems largely divorced from humanitarian concerns about Drakia, and more about their personal goals.
The Drakia deserve to have everything, literally everything, taken from them. But it has to be done right. Perdue might have made a rash decision that had numerous bad ramifications, but I will chalk that up to him panicking when being confronted by the simultaneous start of a huge new war, and a Constitutional crisis unprecedented IOTL's or ITTL's history. Klein and Richardson are nothing short of traitors to the American experiment. I'm sure the Founders were turning over in their graves so fast and angrily, they resembled spinning turbines.
By shutting down the war and pulling out when he did, Perdue helped Drakia, this is true. However, he also fulfilled his oath of office, which is to protect the Constitution from all enemies, internal and external. If he had pursued Klein's war because he wanted to knock the Drakia down a peg, he would have also set a dangerous precedent. A precedent that would allow independent military commanders to wage wars of choice across the world. There was another republic that gave their commanders similar leeway. It's name was Rome, and we all know how that turned out. Honestly, Klein and his co-conspirators in the Navy and the intelligence community should feel lucky they aren't being lined up against a wall and shot. They arguably deserve it for trashing the Constitution and killing thousands of American soldiers in a war of choice. A war that seems largely divorced from humanitarian concerns about Drakia, and more about their personal goals.
The Drakia deserve to have everything, literally everything, taken from them. But it has to be done right. Perdue might have made a rash decision that had numerous bad ramifications, but I will chalk that up to him panicking when being confronted by the simultaneous start of a huge new war, and a Constitutional crisis unprecedented IOTL's or ITTL's history. Klein and Richardson are nothing short of traitors to the American experiment. I'm sure the Founders were turning over in their graves so fast and angrily, they resembled spinning turbines.
Fellow Comrade-Patriot!
Also, I agree with Murica, and tie my view on the whole Klein/Purdue impasse back to the OG Societism. As in that case, it's "clear" to modern observers that a turn of the century politician should have done more to exterminate what would turn out to be the major geopolitical rival, but given the realities of the time the chattering class is far more concerned with the radical threat presented by the expansionist Rodina.
You know that does make me wonder if Drakia has any wildlife preserves or national parks
Cool...You know what; death of the author. I'm going to let my readers make up their own minds about Perdue, Richardson, and Klein.
I honestly forgot that the Philippines are an independent nation at this point in time ITTL.
Guess having the Dragon Spawn as neighbors and the subsequent arrival of Arabic refugees has really caused them to ramp up on their militarism.
Indian-Japanese Alliance of Friendship and Cooperation anyone?
Hey so far your writing has been excellent, just do what best suits you.Please don't feel unwelcome!
We were discussing different approaches to how to write a TL, and I mentioned your Sarawak TL as an example of an excellent TL much of which is written in the form of in-universe sources.
I'm guessing that unlike their Stirling counterparts they general citizen population would be a bit more apprehensive about the prospect of putting all of Europe under bondage. With most preferring the idea of trying to slowly assimilate them into proper citizens or if they manage to conquer Eurasia like cannon disperse them across the Empire and have them merry citizens.
Makes sense. You know in the OTL interwar years the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany did actually collaborate and tank development. Which I can Drakia doing with Geoist Russia and her fellow Societist allies, trying to develop new types of armored vehicles for the next round of fighting.
I can see those programs being rather well supported by the general citizenry of Drakia. With it generally ending up being a rarity for such families to remain bondsmen by the second generation.
Speaking of everyone's favorite standard bearers of Totalitarianism... (and now I kinda want to see OTL UK get transported to this world LOL)This is true, I was referring to the parallels between the rise of the English Societists and the rise of the Nazis.
Stop reading my notes!
Bet you there'll be a Portuguese revolt sometime in the near future...
@Ephraim Ben Raphael At which point does a timeline cross the line from "alternate history" to "fantasy set on Earth"?
I wonder what the British Societist Brownshirt equivalent will be... I am not suggesting there will be one for my over the top parrellism fetish, more because I think them having political paramilitaries makes sense as it will effectively intimidate the civil soviet and it is more totalitarian and revolutionary than Drakia Societism.
Not a chance. The Drakia just experienced industrial war and need time to change from a colonial type military to an mass industrial military. There is no way with long supply lines over ideal guerrilla country are the Drakians going to attack Russia. They may support some rebels or dissidents but actual invasion no.
Question: Has anyone talked about better treatment for the Bonded. Not on any humanitarian grounds but as a way to save on investment?
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