I have been catching up on this TL and I must say, it is scarily good work!

Regarding the discussion above, knowing how this sort of theories work, I am sure Drakians will be able to come up some sort of justification why some group of black and brown people should have a status of honorary whites while other shouldn't. Their system will collapse otherwise.

Reading the work, I have been thinking how well the Drakian economic system will manage in future, especially as it needs to start to compete with other great powers, particularly the US. It has inheritent weaknesses the system based on slavery and oppression has but it has been also able to take control of large chunk of the world's natural resources and does have a large workforce pool. In cases like that the size seems to be able to compensate some of that, like what we have seen with some regimes IOTL. Draka is also somewhat uncomfortably close to many of the world's most important oil producing regions too, in addition to those it already controls.

Two small nitpicks: The way how Japanese imperial titles work somewhat differently from Western ones so I think it is unlikely that the Japanese Emperor would be given additional titles. The POD is far enough back though that the whole ideological basis of Imperial system might have developed differently ITTL and they might have adopted a more western way of addressing the emperor. IOTL he has been always just simply the tennou ("Heavenly Sovereign"). Foreign monarchs are koutei, "emperors". So the Japanese emperor isn't technically even called "emperor" in Japanese. Also, in maps Sweden/Scandinavia has a small chunk of Karelian Isthmus which it already lost during the early part of 18th century.
 
Regarding the honorary white status, I am now curious as to how albino native Africans will be treated. Would they be seen as white?
 
You get enough authoritative voices pounding the same theories in magazines,newspapers,textbooks,OUR Drakia culture and ethos attracts the superior individuals into our collective "society",a lot of the people on the fence will be the most virulent defenders,pragmatic long term thinkers will welcome the added numbers,of course your pure racists and what opposition there is will know it's junk sociology
 

CalBear

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One question...

Is supposed to be a Draka T/L

Okay, two questions -

If it isn't does anyone want to delete/disavow their posts before I start reacting like this is supposed to be a real pre-1900 ATL? Asking this one 'cause from what I've seen, especially the report that drew me here, this is going to be a bloodbath.
 
Will TTL's version of HIV be called stone dogs? The version from the books is too ridiculous to take seriously

No- I have no plans to call it that.

Under current status, Drakia is doomed in any committed war unless it 1: gets allies or 2: reinvents itself as the superpower state that Stirling envisioned

Well while it will be reinventing itself, Number 2 isn't really a plausible option in this universe.

On *that* general topic, how are Jews treated in Drakia?

They face systemic discrimination and bigotry, but if they're white then they're legally equal citizens. Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews are classed as Arabs (the Sephardim are attempting to convince the Drakians that they're actually Spanish without much success), the Ethiopian Jews are considered African. Both groups are Nationals at best, or Bonded.

I have been catching up on this TL and I must say, it is scarily good work!

Thank you!

Regarding the discussion above, knowing how this sort of theories work, I am sure Drakians will be able to come up some sort of justification why some group of black and brown people should have a status of honorary whites while other shouldn't. Their system will collapse otherwise.

Reading the work, I have been thinking how well the Drakian economic system will manage in future, especially as it needs to start to compete with other great powers, particularly the US. It has inheritent weaknesses the system based on slavery and oppression has but it has been also able to take control of large chunk of the world's natural resources and does have a large workforce pool. In cases like that the size seems to be able to compensate some of that, like what we have seen with some regimes IOTL. Draka is also somewhat uncomfortably close to many of the world's most important oil producing regions too, in addition to those it already controls.

Some very good speculation, but unfortunately- like a lot of other comments in the thread- I can't comment without giving anything away!

Two small nitpicks: The way how Japanese imperial titles work somewhat differently from Western ones so I think it is unlikely that the Japanese Emperor would be given additional titles. The POD is far enough back though that the whole ideological basis of Imperial system might have developed differently ITTL and they might have adopted a more western way of addressing the emperor. IOTL he has been always just simply the tennou ("Heavenly Sovereign"). Foreign monarchs are koutei, "emperors". So the Japanese emperor isn't technically even called "emperor" in Japanese. Also, in maps Sweden/Scandinavia has a small chunk of Karelian Isthmus which it already lost during the early part of 18th century.

Ach, that map error was from the basemap I used. As for Japan, the Japanese are attempting to copy American federalism while borrowing from the European concept of thrones in personal union as a way to acknowledge the existence of separate non-colonial territories within their empire. I'm honestly not sure how that would work linguistically.

Regarding the honorary white status, I am now curious as to how albino native Africans will be treated. Would they be seen as white?

Drakian Eugenics doesn't target albinos as a category, but only if they present with one of the more severe vision problems associated with albinism. Most albinos are perfectly healthy other than having to watch their sun-exposure, so most are left alone. Albino Africans wouldn't be treated as white Europeans, but they wouldn't be singled out for persecution and there might be some who would argue that they're a sign of Africans "evolving" to be white.

One question...

Is supposed to be a Draka T/L

Okay, two questions -

If it isn't does anyone want to delete/disavow their posts before I start reacting like this is supposed to be a real pre-1900 ATL? Asking this one 'cause from what I've seen, especially the report that drew me here, this is going to be a bloodbath.

To answer your questions;

1. Yes, although I'm disappointed to hear you suggest that this means it's not a "real pre-1900 ATL".

2. I hope that my readers in general aren't seriously endorsing any of Drakia's policies which I have explicitly based on policies by Nazi Germany and the worst forms of OTL imperialism, slavery, and exploitation. How would your policing of comments on the thread be different if it weren't a Draka TL or a TL like WMIT?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Ok this makes sense for there were so many errors in the thread I just stopped following and gave up. Now that you are sticking to Stirling flawed and grossly inaccurate historical ideas, I agree it is where it belongs in the fan fiction.
 
Taking cues from Stirling certainly doesn’t stop this from being a “real pre-1900 TL”. And if there is actionable stuff here, you should certainly act on it.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Taking cues from Stirling certainly doesn’t stop this from being a “real pre-1900 TL”. And if there is actionable stuff here, you should certainly act on it.
Pre-1900 and Post-1900 is for original TL and if someone wants to use Stirling or another author TL and make it better they free to do so, there are forums for that.
 

CalBear

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...
To answer your questions;

1. Yes, although I'm disappointed to hear you suggest that this means it's not a "real pre-1900 ATL".

2. I hope that my readers in general aren't seriously endorsing any of Drakia's policies which I have explicitly based on policies by Nazi Germany and the worst forms of OTL imperialism, slavery, and exploitation. How would your policing of comments on the thread be different if it weren't a Draka TL or a TL like WMIT?

The minute you include a novel/film/game/comic/etc. it stops being "pre or post or FH, or even ASB.

If we are taking about a world based in a novel etc. comments are given more room to comment BASED ON THE 'VERSE. There are still limits, but a bit more space.
 
The minute you include a novel/film/game/comic/etc. it stops being "pre or post or FH, or even ASB.

If we are taking about a world based in a novel etc. comments are given more room to comment BASED ON THE 'VERSE. There are still limits, but a bit more space.

Okay, for some reason I wasn't aware that we had changed things. I meant this as my own universe covering a version of the Draka and the United States, inspired by a couple of other pre-1900 TLs that I've been following, and it didn't occur to me to post it elsewhere. Apologies. If anyone has posted anything in this thread that you think deserves a kick or a ban, then by all means please act on it.
 
I'd disagree with characterizing this as Fandom... while it's certainly inspired by Stirling's works it's not set in them. It's written as a standalone, historically plausible timeline that takes some inspiration from Stirling's ideas, but bears about as much relation to them as a victorious Confederacy timeline would to Turtledove's Southern Victory series.
 
I'd disagree with characterizing this as Fandom... while it's certainly inspired by Stirling's works it's not set in them. It's written as a standalone, historically plausible timeline that takes some inspiration from Stirling's ideas, but bears about as much relation to them as a victorious Confederacy timeline would to Turtledove's Southern Victory series.

Its a bit of a weird one. I mean even on a technicallity he has taken the Draka as they were in SM Stirlings books (and yes, twisted it his own way) and tried to put it in a different Universe, but its still the Draka, homage or not.

Which makes it curious as to why its not in AH books and Media considering that the whole Draka-verse is just as influential as TL191 in published Alternate history.
 
Okay, for some reason I wasn't aware that we had changed things. I meant this as my own universe covering a version of the Draka and the United States, inspired by a couple of other pre-1900 TLs that I've been following, and it didn't occur to me to post it elsewhere. Apologies. If anyone has posted anything in this thread that you think deserves a kick or a ban, then by all means please act on it.
Well,you have the USA and the Draka,but the demographics,world history,everything's different,don't see reason for an apology on your part.
 
Agree with Coley. Though the timeline is certainly based on an alternate history concept derived from an outside book, this is not the same Draka (or Drakia in this instance) as in Sterling's books. Comparatively, something like "TL-191: After the End" belongs in Books and Media as it fully admits to being in the same universe as what its based. This is simply a take on the idea in timeline form, and is therefore just as valid to be in Pre-1900 as any other original work in the forum.
 
Moved this back to pre-1900, it's a legit AH scenario even if the idea of it is based on a published book. If you started working a bunch of characters from the Draka books in as other than just name inspirations, it would be one thing, but this is AH.
 
Moved this back to pre-1900, it's a legit AH scenario even if the idea of it is based on a published book. If you started working a bunch of characters from the Draka books in as other than just name inspirations, it would be one thing, but this is AH.

Thank you.:)

How powerful is the Drakian Navy ATM, I may ask?

Still pretty weak- it was always able to refly on the RN as a Dominion and is still scrambling to build it up. By 1920 most of the Drakian Navy is dedicated to logistics and transportation and barely a combat force at all.

I'd disagree with characterizing this as Fandom... while it's certainly inspired by Stirling's works it's not set in them. It's written as a standalone, historically plausible timeline that takes some inspiration from Stirling's ideas, but bears about as much relation to them as a victorious Confederacy timeline would to Turtledove's Southern Victory series.

Its a bit of a weird one. I mean even on a technicallity he has taken the Draka as they were in SM Stirlings books (and yes, twisted it his own way) and tried to put it in a different Universe, but its still the Draka, homage or not.

Which makes it curious as to why its not in AH books and Media considering that the whole Draka-verse is just as influential as TL191 in published Alternate history.

Well,you have the USA and the Draka,but the demographics,world history,everything's different,don't see reason for an apology on your part.

Agree with Coley. Though the timeline is certainly based on an alternate history concept derived from an outside book, this is not the same Draka (or Drakia in this instance) as in Sterling's books. Comparatively, something like "TL-191: After the End" belongs in Books and Media as it fully admits to being in the same universe as what its based. This is simply a take on the idea in timeline form, and is therefore just as valid to be in Pre-1900 as any other original work in the forum.

Thank you guys.:)
 
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