Separated at Birth: America and Drakia

[karatachi]

To be honest, The Anglo Draka war should not be a dice roll, it's really no contest at all. Britian is a nation which just had the crap kicked out of it and the resource differential between them and the Draka are so large it's almost impossible to count. Their is simply no way the Draka can lose this war.

Exactly, that's why there's a part about "plot twists"

 

[Manatee]

To be honest, The Anglo Draka war should not be a dice roll, it's really no contest at all. Britian is a nation which just had the crap kicked out of it and the resource differential between them and the Draka are so large it's almost impossible to count. Their is simply no way the Draka can lose this war.

Well Draka probably dont have navy and we dont know how dependent their economy is on trade. Also GB can probably call in forces from other dominions. Also there are other dominions in africa and they might decide that they really dont want to be taken over and decide to send in loads of troops.

Also Draka might have have a major rebellion if they are forced to deploy to many troops.

 

[Blobfish]

To be honest, The Anglo Draka war should not be a dice roll, it's really no contest at all. Britian is a nation which just had the crap kicked out of it and the resource differential between them and the Draka are so large it's almost impossible to count. Their is simply no way the Draka can lose this war.

Britain: Rolls 20
Drakia is defeated via the power of friendship I guess. In all seriousness though I wouldn’t mind a dice roll given that the ACW had one. Even if Drakia wins no matter what the lasting impacts on Britain and the other dominions could still vary depending on how long/easy the war goes for Drakia.

 

[Mr_Fanboy]

To be honest, The Anglo Draka war should not be a dice roll, it's really no contest at all. Britian is a nation which just had the crap kicked out of it and the resource differential between them and the Draka are so large it's almost impossible to count. Their is simply no way the Draka can lose this war.

Plus, the final confrontation has to be primarily between the United States and Drakia.

 

[Roosevelt]

Drakia is becoming scarier and scarier. Also, can we get a map soon?

 

[Victor Hatherley]

Elvira Naldorssen: “We live in a society. Bottom text.”

We live in a final society

Draka rise up

 

[Herucalmo]

So I imagine as this universe's *fascism for a lot of the early days Societism would have weird experimental left factions as "mixing the pinnacle of the races" Integralismo style replaces the socialists in Mussolini's pre-Aventine Succession rule and the pre-Night of Long Knives NSDAP. So mostly they're going to pan out and be in turns subsumed and annihilated by the core strands of Societism but in this time, when Societism is so celebrated among Citizen immigrant communities and is such a young movement rising against the old men of the establishment, I think this is going to perk the interest of the "Martial Race" Auxiliary Families and Honorary Whites. Not the hereditary Principalities and Chiefdoms, but the lesser aristocracy and minor landowning gentry around them who would personally be better off unconstrained by the similar elders standing in their way and the traditional norms and customs of the notables preventing the total exploitation and industrialization of the heartland of the Nationals. As after the Crimbrian and Social Wars the Italian allies and clients forced the Roman Republic to cut them into the imperial aggrandizement and brutalization of Gaul and Asia, so too will select portions of the Drakian middle and lowers castes demand political power in parallel with the relationships and networks they would form with the new "efficient" overseers and industrialists and with military service in the Firstborn Dominion's death throws.

 

[Blorg]

It rolls a 19

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

@Ephraim Ben Raphael Please tell me that you are going to be rolling for the Anglo-Drakian War. Also, are you planning on just rolling once for each side to decide the outcome, or will you perhaps roll for individual flashpoints to see how certain parts of it go?

Each side, plus America. I was originally going to roll for a couple of other countries as well, but neither France nor Russia is in any position to be grabbing British territory.

It took roughly fifty years (early 1900s to 1957 ish) between us figuring out that our genes are composed of strings made out of a nucleotide, a sugar base, and a phosphate group; and us establishing the central dogma, i.e. DNA turns into RNA turns into proteins, and DNA can replicate into itself but has to be translated into RNA before it can transcribe amino acids sequences which turn into proteins which turn into just about everything the human body has to offer. The barest traces of recombinant DNA technology won't be until twenty years after that, and CRISPR-Cas9 is still frontier tech even in 2019.

I mean, you can shave off a decade or two by sending some OTL famous biologists to the First Dominion, plus making biotechnology their prime shtick -- though they'll be chasing a lot of false leads because of the whole scientific racism thing (like seriously, Drakia will be wasting a lot of money in their early days trying to "prove" the superiority of white Loyalist-Ancien regime-Confederate blood and hunting genes for something as banal as homosexuality before, or unless, they wisen up and figure maybe they should spend the grant money on accessible gene therapy instead) -- but I sincerely doubt they'd be pumping out H. drakensis or stronger-than-baseline-human soldiers on any time frame relevant to the TL.

Thank you. Based on what you, and other posters have said, I don't think we're going to be seeing genetic manipulation playing a major role in this TL. The Draka will have to pursue H. Drakensis through a different route.

I still think that an exploration of the world after a defeat of Drakia/Draka would be more interesting than a world where a boot stamps on a human face forever. The challenges of repairing the damage their ideology did to the continent and its people would be fascinating.

I agree- a boot stamping on a human face forever would be boring.

One thing the Drakians could do, if they're still around in the 1970s... to try to breed "superior" genes without having access to DNA-editing technology... would be IVF.

Specifically seeking sperm and eggs from people the Drakians deem to be "superior" (e.g. white military veterans), fertilize, and implant into "bonded" "volunteers" giving up their womb for 9 months to gestate these superior-humans.

Actually, in general once IVF is a thing, I could imagine white Drakian women who want children but don't want to go through pregnancy using "bonded" women as essentially walking wombs, getting them to go through the pregnancy instead.

Pretty awful, but the sort of thing I could imagine the Drakians doing.

These are some really interesting ideas.

A nineteen! How Societism shake up Drakia?

Nope, rolling for something else. Societism will shake up Drakia regardless

So! Alt!Fascism makes its entrance. Societism sounds really familiar, like something Thande would have brought up in LTTW. Forgot about the finer points of that ideology, though.

Well I did steal his name, although these are very different ideologies.

Man, I'm loving this. The bizarro anti-America gets its very own bizarro anti-Ayn Rand. Absurdly collectivist instead of absurdly anti-collectivist. Totally pro-totalitarian government instead of totally anti-government. Inspired by the legacy of Plato instead of the legacy of Aristotle. Co-opting religion instead of promoting atheism. Explicitly rooted in pre-modern social structures, instead of explicitly rejecting everything pre-modern.

And of course, because this is the open-air looney bin that is Drakia, it's a highly successful mass movement instead of a fringe phenomenon.

Thank you. I've been playing up the "anti-American" nature of Drakia that Stirling included in his original novels- it's one of the things he did with the Draka that I actually really like.

Those references are gold

So I've been kicking around an idea for a symbol that could work for Societism. Given the Draka's interest in ancient Indian architecture in the original a vajra could be a useful symbol to represent both invulnerability and overwhelming force. A traditional vajra could work as a symbol of office (ironically like the original fasces) but for flags/posters/military emblems I think a simple diamond emblem where one side is a lightning bolt could neatly represent the concept. The idea that America uses an old school fasces and the draka distill their symbol into an abstract modernist emblem would be amusing.

That's an interesting idea, although these Drakians lack the Indo-philia of the original. But an abstract modernist emblem? Very yes.

One of the best AH essays I've read in ages. Thank you very much!

You are very welcome.

@Ephraim Ben Raphael. Please threadmark the interlude.

Quite right, fixed.

Elvira Naldorssen: “We live in a society. Bottom text.”

First of all what a wonderful cheery sort of completely, utterly, horrifying.

*takes bow*

Second of all this was Actually Amazing to read as an introduction to the crazy and unique weirdness involved in Societism.

Third of all it was just good. Having examples of pop culture can be incredibly useful in figuring out how a TL works, and in this case, your rundown of The Final Society does that job admirably.

Thank you! I agree completely about pop culture, I just find it one of the hardest things to write for a TL.

Love how you lay out her biography here and use a Immigrant story of Love for their new home, which is often an American thing.

Well Drakia is of course the anti-America.

Do I even want to know what this was about...

A philosophical/theological text rejecting various arguments in favor democracy and equality that are based on Christian values. Like the old "we're all descended from the same people, so no one can claim to be superior based on their ancestry.

Interesting... My predictions about their turn to the Racist against everyone not them turns out correct but with a twist.

A necessary twist IMO if they're going to maintain control over such a huge population of non-whites.

This is of course disgusting evil bile...exactly the sort of thing to appeal to the Draka. Just noticed one thing though. It incorporates a element of Facism* in that it allows people to intergrate if you become exactly like us but only Racially instead of culturally.

Quite so.

Pretty standerd Draka herre..I do wonder now how is education handled in Drakia? Is it segragted even between Citizen Groups or is it just a Societist fantasy?

It's not yet quite so formal, but they certainly have a version of tracking and there are of course better private school for those who can afford them. Most of the private schools won't accept Honorary Whites, but the public school system (for citizens only) does not.

The main thing which strikes me of interest is the Reunified Church, of course it'll be a Racist shit show but I do wonder what sort of traditions it incorporates...mainly interested because this is the Ideology Draka is going to adopt whole sale, so it's likely to be state enforced

Naldorssen isn't super dogmatic as a Christian- she favors a Reunified Church because she'd like to see all of Christendom stand together against the heathen.

Jesus and the apostles are probably laughing their asses off while reading this... I'm guessing his Religous teachings are essentially Christian Identity nonsense.

Not quite the same as Christian Identity since it's more concerned with whether or not you have "superior" genetics and accept your role in life- either as a subordinate or a ruler- than whether or not you're descended for a certain race. As far as Naldorssen is concerned Whites have the most superior genetics physically, mentally, and morally but this isn't absolute and it's possible in theory for other races to aspire to reach the same level.

Um...Hello Lottery?
Seriously though, I find it funny how Atlas just has to abolish money like is their a single utopia book where Money is still a thing?

Yup, basically the lottery. And of course Atlas couldn't have not abolished money- not in a 1900s book about a utopia.

So at heart she's just a really Racist Fanfic author

As a Reader of Jordan Peterson, I got that refrence

I don't want to bring in anything controversial IOTL, but the business with lobsters struck me as a little silly.

While this is horrifying for everyone living in Africa, it actually has some possiblity for good things in that this Ideology can only be appealing to Former Dominos and no one would ally with them. This gives a good boost for the US in the Cold and Hot war to come

Quite possibly!

Good job making “The Final Society” feel like an early-1900’s science fiction story. The ham fisted political/societal views and obvious analogues are right on point.

Thank you.

I can't wait to see the dice rolls and plot twists for the Anglo-Draka War!

Well you already saw one, Drakia rolled a 19.

Drakia is becoming scarier and scarier. Also, can we get a map soon?

The next chapter, I promise!

So I imagine as this universe's *fascism for a lot of the early days Societism would have weird experimental left factions as "mixing the pinnacle of the races" Integralismo style replaces the socialists in Mussolini's pre-Aventine Succession rule and the pre-Night of Long Knives NSDAP. So mostly they're going to pan out and be in turns subsumed and annihilated by the core strands of Societism but in this time, when Societism is so celebrated among Citizen immigrant communities and is such a young movement rising against the old men of the establishment, I think this is going to perk the interest of the "Martial Race" Auxiliary Families and Honorary Whites. Not the hereditary Principalities and Chiefdoms, but the lesser aristocracy and minor landowning gentry around them who would personally be better off unconstrained by the similar elders standing in their way and the traditional norms and customs of the notables preventing the total exploitation and industrialization of the heartland of the Nationals. As after the Crimbrian and Social Wars the Italian allies and clients forced the Roman Republic to cut them into the imperial aggrandizement and brutalization of Gaul and Asia, so too will select portions of the Drakian middle and lowers castes demand political power in parallel with the relationships and networks they would form with the new "efficient" overseers and industrialists and with military service in the Firstborn Dominion's death throws.

I think you've found some pretty good analogies.

 

[Simeon]

And so, a poor excise of a pun upon a certain left-wing, German paramilitary will take over Rhomania, and will go thrashing about the Balkans up to Danube.

I wonder if the more conservative Hindus took notice of her work and applied it to their own Caste system.

“Serving your masters in your current life will avail you dominion over others in your next.”

 

[Workable Goblin]

I wonder if the more conservative Hindus took notice of her work and applied it to their own Caste system.

“Serving your masters in your current life will avail you dominion over others in your next.”

That's always been something of an undercurrent in Indian beliefs about reincarnation. The entire idea of accumulating karma over many lifetimes to eventually find liberation from the cycle certainly lends itself to the idea that being a faithful servant will bring future rewards, so you should just do what your betters tell you and not complain.

 

[Coley]

Excellent,like reading a true believable chronology

 

[Deleted member 94708]

There’s some irony in this “story in a story”, given that in the original books the Draka launched their attack against the AfD precisely because they couldn’t keep up with its R&D establishment even through rampant theft and blatant mimicry.

That said, I question the mechanism of dice rolls to determine outcomes without some degree of handicapping to account for real-world (TTL’s world that is) circumstances.

 

[Wolttaire]

I think America might invade Britain to gain some more clay just because and Britain weak

 

[theclerk]

@Ephraim Ben Raphael That James Cross bit gave me cancer and made me lose my sides into orbit at the same time. I love it so much because it reads like something a teenage girl would write.

I'm surprised Elvira didn't include her self-insert character to shack up with James Cross. Maybe her editors told her it was a bad idea, that and the graphic sex scenes might not help the book.

Oh, and calling it right now. In the future, there will be MosesxJames slash fics in Drakia.

 

[fluttersky]

I think America might invade Britain to gain some more clay just because and Britain weak

omg that would be interesting.

I guess if Ireland remains American, it's probably not totally out of the question...

 

[Wolttaire]

omg that would be interesting.

I guess if Ireland remains American, it's probably not totally out of the question...

Oh I was more think general British colonies throughout the world and then grant them independence and set up a democratic government that way or more likely keep them

 

[Born in the USSA]

Oh I was more think general British colonies throughout the world and then grant them independence and set up a democratic government that way or more likely keep them

If TTL's trend holds all the "new republics" will just petition for annexation. An American Commonwealth now and forever!

 

[fluttersky]

If TTL's trend holds all the "new republics" will just petition for annexation. An American Commonwealth now and forever!

100 years later: the only two countries in the world are America and Drakia.

 

[Born in the USSA]

100 years later: the only two countries in the world are America and Drakia.

As it should be! Fascism and Societism in a Protracted Struggle to the death!