The problem being that being allowed to be second class citizens is only preferable to not being citizens at all. Even with the changes this USA has gone through the powers that be are still going to be entirely unwilling to actually put their money their their mouth is and accept the average Mexican who isn't a white-passing English educated landowner as anything but an uncivilized thing, to have its political aspirations be worked around and kept down in its "proper place". And by now most of the population would have at least hit a plateau if not started to recover and would be clamoring to actually escape the virtual serfdom of the villas of those who are "true" citizens.
Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
- Start date
I dont know about that, this USA dont seem to care at all about race. Also yes the white English speaking Mexican landowners probably had, immense amount of power back in the day. But thats 50 years ago, and a new more educated generation has come up, I simply cant see them being put down. This is not Jim crow USA there is simply no way to stop these people from voting. Also the is probably a large amount of Latinos by now enough that they would worth specifically targeting to get elected. So somebody by now should have used that fact to come into power.
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Honestly, given how hopped up much of the Wehrmacht were on amphetamines during World War II, it is not that outrageous by the standards of our timeline.
Not only that, but I imagine that by this point Mexico's population has more or less assimilated into American culture.
Especially with this timelines borg USA, which seems to have a obsession to assimilate other cultures.
@Ephraim Ben Raphael I'm curious about something, but is the concept of race-mixing in the United States not as frowned upon? I'd be very interested to see if there are ethnically mixed families, at least in much larger proportions in the progressive regions of the United States compared to OTL.
I actually started following a quest on SV a few months ago, and it's wild! Was inspired partly by that and partl by Mad Missouri's Drakaverse "The Three Eagles" TL where he also uses dice to determine what's going to happen.
Thank you.
You'll just have to keep reading to find out.
It adds a nice element of randomness to the TL.
Australia, New Zealand, Newfoundland, The Bahammas.
Quite right. Senegal would probably be a better example.
Not impossible.
Probably. If nothing else that means he managed to sit out the war.
There really is nothing to say to that. Drakia is evil.
Just so.
Still working out the details- it will depend a little on how the Anglo-Drakian War turns out. Definitely Newfoundland, quite a few Pacific Islands, haven't decided on the Caribbean yet.
Danke.
It is an aspect of the US-Draka relationship that Stirling unfortunately didn't think to mention.
At the moment Cannabis isn't getting much attention from Drakian science- they know that it makes you high and some of the side affects, but haven't bothered to ban it or too focus particularly carefully on it.
There aren't enough Neo-Byzantiums out there.
How early do you think that CRISPER could be discovered?
I was hoping to avoid some of the worst of the overused tropes, but thank you regardless.
We'll definitely spend some time talking about it.
The next world map, I promise.
Radical Geoism. Basically if Geoism was Socialism, then Rodinaism would be Communism.
Thank you!
Well they played second-fiddle to the Americans during the invasion, but you'd best believe that they left a few mixed-race Irish-Japanese behind.
The war began in 1907 and ended in 1911- so it was closer to 4 years. I did gloss over the details of some of the campaigns. In terms of casualties the losses were higher than World War I, there were more battles in more places with more advances technology and in particular far more liberal use of chemical weapons. The air raids by zeppelin weren't as bad was World War II but they were considerably worse than World War I with incendiaries and gas being dropped on civilian populations.
OTL World War I had between 15-19 deaths, TTL's World War had between 22-26 million.
They were thinking something along the lines of "we will redeem the failures of the past!" What with the America and French navies strong enough to actually challenge Britain, the hope was to take control of the Channel and capture London, bringing the war to a quick end. If they'd rolled high enough...
Yup. Of course they couldn't do a Schliefen plan because the only other country bordering Germany was the Netherlands, and Germany knew they were a French puppet.
Ja.
It's the downside of religious leadership getting involved in national leadership and political affairs. If the nation screws up then it can drag the religion down too, and if the politics are controversial then the other side can end up hostile to the religion. How to explain why they're fighting Catholic Austria and Bavaria for instance, although it helped that it was Austria and Bavaria that declared war on Italy and not the other way around. Don't worry- things will get back on track with the biggest real loss being the schism of the Drakian Catholics (most of the British Catholics will come back eventually).
How do you motivate slaves to work hard when there's no reward for hard work? Meth.
Especially considering that some of it will actually work.
Once the Royal Navy had been defeated off the coast of North America there was no longer anything to prevent the United States from bombarding Newfoundland and its associated islands from the sea, the air, and even the land until it was ready to invade at its leisure. The fighting was very hard, but it didn't matter how well-fortified Newfoundland was against the majority of the US Army.
You'd be surprised- even the Drakians know that trying to re-enslave veteran soldiers with military training would be a poor idea.
People are only just realizing that Drakia is actually capable of exploiting that manpower, resources, and industry to extent that they are.
Polandball got to love it...
Me too.
America bailing out our allies and screwing up international diplomacy as usual
Some things never change!
Yes this is awesome, I'm so happy right now. thanks for taking my suggestion seriously Ephiram
It was a good suggestion.
You'll just have to find out.
Not quite. Check the ending of one of the earlier chapters.
America's not currently overstretched in any real way. Canada has been entirely assimilated, as has OTL northern Mexico. There are insurgencies in Central America, but while a majority of the population of Old Mexico doesn't consider itself American and isn't particularly loyal to America, a large minority does and most of those who don't aren't politically aware and are tolerant of American rule. The Mexican Criollo/landowning class is still in control of the area, but it's not going to last forever.
Not entirely. We'll talk about it a bit more in detail, but while a large minority has it's not everybody.
Depends on where you are, but yes. Race-mixing is far more tolerated in ITTL's United States than OTL and there's a lot more in the way of ethnically mixed families.
I'm not sure it was, honestly. Newfoundland is not so valuable or critical that it would necessarily be something to hold onto at all costs, and it is after very close to America and quite vulnerable to the United States Navy being able to get even temporary local superiority. I could well see the British treating it much like the United States Navy treated America's western Pacific possessions IOTL: outposts doomed to fall to the superior might of the local adversary, but which might be able to delay and bleed them a little and which might eventually be liberated. This is not, obviously, an attitude which greatly encourages heavy fortification.
The Newfies, of course, would probably see things differently, but they don't have all that much in the way of money or resources to make Newfoundland impregnable or anything like that.
So here are my guesses:
1. Japan starts to expand in China and SE Asia using a combination of force and proxies. They may even help out the Monarchists in Russia.
2. France and Italy are go Communist (or Rodonist in this world I suppose) while Spain and Russia go Geoist. Most of the European countries are caught torn between various movements.
4. Germany and Rhomania remain heavily armed states surrounded by enemies.
5. News of the Dragon's Nest and other population programs are released to the wider world. Many react with horror while Drakia shrugs.
6. Many European colonies and even Drakia receive an influx of immigrants from the UK and Europe.
7. The US tries to 'police' the world but does not have the interest or the allies to be everywhere at once.
8. The Drakia continue to militarize and industrialize for preparation for the next war.
1. Japan starts to expand in China and SE Asia using a combination of force and proxies. They may even help out the Monarchists in Russia.
2. France and Italy are go Communist (or Rodonist in this world I suppose) while Spain and Russia go Geoist. Most of the European countries are caught torn between various movements.
4. Germany and Rhomania remain heavily armed states surrounded by enemies.
5. News of the Dragon's Nest and other population programs are released to the wider world. Many react with horror while Drakia shrugs.
6. Many European colonies and even Drakia receive an influx of immigrants from the UK and Europe.
7. The US tries to 'police' the world but does not have the interest or the allies to be everywhere at once.
8. The Drakia continue to militarize and industrialize for preparation for the next war.
@Ephraim Ben Raphael Please tell me that you are going to be rolling for the Anglo-Drakian War. Also, are you planning on just rolling once for each side to decide the outcome, or will you perhaps roll for individual flashpoints to see how certain parts of it go?
hmmm depends on the current state of biotech/looking at micrbo stuff in drakia.
It took roughly fifty years (early 1900s to 1957 ish) between us figuring out that our genes are composed of strings made out of a nucleotide, a sugar base, and a phosphate group; and us establishing the central dogma, i.e. DNA turns into RNA turns into proteins, and DNA can replicate into itself but has to be translated into RNA before it can transcribe amino acids sequences which turn into proteins which turn into just about everything the human body has to offer. The barest traces of recombinant DNA technology won't be until twenty years after that, and CRISPR-Cas9 is still frontier tech even in 2019.
I mean, you can shave off a decade or two by sending some OTL famous biologists to the First Dominion, plus making biotechnology their prime shtick -- though they'll be chasing a lot of false leads because of the whole scientific racism thing (like seriously, Drakia will be wasting a lot of money in their early days trying to "prove" the superiority of white Loyalist-Ancien regime-Confederate blood and hunting genes for something as banal as homosexuality before, or unless, they wisen up and figure maybe they should spend the grant money on accessible gene therapy instead) -- but I sincerely doubt they'd be pumping out H. drakensis or stronger-than-baseline-human soldiers on any time frame relevant to the TL.
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well, CRISPR was discovered in the 1980s in ecoil and can be found in every single bacteria in the world. So it could easily have been accidentally discovered early on and if the puporse is found out it could also be used. While I guess it "frontier" just to how new it is, it an incredible technology and been recently just discover a new part of it that let them edit entire sequences of dna! It truly amazing and in fact totally within the realm of possibility for them to have H. drakensis where they all genetically modify their children. In fact, within the next couple of decades, this will become reality.
Crispr weirdly is a easy technology to master. There a reason why they are freaking out from bio terrorism from the basement it very cheap and is relatively safe.
still, it will be a while before it can be used just due to us being in the 1920s tech level right now. Some of the reason why it took us a while to use it and knows it purpose was because of the tech in the 1980s. I digress.
I still think that an exploration of the world after a defeat of Drakia/Draka would be more interesting than a world where a boot stamps on a human face forever. The challenges of repairing the damage their ideology did to the continent and its people would be fascinating.
It took until the early 2000s before they figured out what it does, which was essentially memorize DNA stuck into its backsides. 2012 before they figured out that you can fuse CRISPR with Cas9 enzymes, and just in 2015 before they demonstrated the complex can slice DNA sequences open and target specific fragments. That's almost twenty years of laborious laboratory work just for a proof-of-concept. Combine that with how long cutting-edge medicine passes clinical trials and enters the market, and we might not see the first gene therapy treatments until the mid-late 21st century.
Again, getting from "strands of sugar, phosphates, and nucleic acid inhabit our body" to "we can slice and dice genes now" took an entire century -- and the last one hasn't even been fully achieved yet. Unless you want to resort to Stirling-esque levels of tech wank, then Drakia won't get to do jack with human genetic engineering even if EBR stretches the TL to 2019. Not even if you shave two decades off of the field's OTL progress, which is already being ridiculously generous.
One thing the Drakians could do, if they're still around in the 1970s... to try to breed "superior" genes without having access to DNA-editing technology... would be IVF.
Specifically seeking sperm and eggs from people the Drakians deem to be "superior" (e.g. white military veterans), fertilize, and implant into "bonded" "volunteers" giving up their womb for 9 months to gestate these superior-humans.
Actually, in general once IVF is a thing, I could imagine white Drakian women who want children but don't want to go through pregnancy using "bonded" women as essentially walking wombs, getting them to go through the pregnancy instead.
Pretty awful, but the sort of thing I could imagine the Drakians doing.
Specifically seeking sperm and eggs from people the Drakians deem to be "superior" (e.g. white military veterans), fertilize, and implant into "bonded" "volunteers" giving up their womb for 9 months to gestate these superior-humans.
Actually, in general once IVF is a thing, I could imagine white Drakian women who want children but don't want to go through pregnancy using "bonded" women as essentially walking wombs, getting them to go through the pregnancy instead.
Pretty awful, but the sort of thing I could imagine the Drakians doing.
Could work, and mass in vitro with breeding programs is something that could fit right up a besieged, outnumbered white colonial government's alley. But that would fall under the "false leads" section, since Mendelian inheritance is pretty luck-of-the-draw as it is.
Before we start imagining all kinds of genetic horrors I think the Drakia would be interested in tropical medicine, battlefield medicine, better crop and animal hybrids. They also are probably developing various forms of biological weaponry.
You know what’d be hilarious? If the Drakia/Draka genetic experimentation only started bearing fruit after the country was thoroughly un-indoctrinated.