Separated at Birth: America and Drakia

[Unknown]

The US isn't perfect, but, compared to Drakia, it's miles better, IMO...

 

[Blorg]

The plot thickens

 

[AnonymousSauce]

The US isn't perfect, but, compared to Drakia, it's miles better, IMO...

It'd be hard for a state to not be better than TTL's Drakia...

 

[President Earl Warren]

I'm actually not too sure who's more crazy, the Draka or the Republican Union/NUSA

Eh, their just as Evil but not in the same ball park as the NUSA in pure craziness. Say what you will about Draka, they don’t give their own kids Cocaine...

 

[Roosevelt]

Eh, their just as Evil but not in the same ball park as the NUSA in pure craziness. Say what you will about Draka, they don’t give their own kids Cocaine...

Yet.

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

As in the dialect of English the people of the Draka speak eventually evolving into its own language similar to how Dutch in the Boer states eventually morphed into Afrikaners.

Well the Drakians aren't as isolated as the Afrikaners were- they've been actively in contact with Britain and the rest of the English-speaking world for a while. So while it's certainly going to evolve into its own dialect, I don't think it'll end up its own language any more than American English or whatever form of English the Anglo-Indians spoke.

If nations where people America and the Draka would be France and Britain's kids that end up emulating different aspect of their Roman grandad. Americans follows Republican Rome habit of Romanizing conquered peoples while Draka is all about Conquest through its citizen soldiers.

Ultimately some German/Chinese/Russian politicians is going to end up comparing Americanzation and Drakanization as having the same end goal. One just comes wrapped in the velvet glove of democracy while the other in spiked collar of slavery. Both ideologies aim to impose their respective nation's ideas, values, and culture on the world, through force if needed. Different methodologies same end point.

That's a good point.

@Ephraim Ben Raphael : I totally agree that most European colonization had a layer of natives between the whites on top and the masses below who were enslaved or some form of bondage, whatever it was called. I would only suggest that it is important to distinguish between the bulk of the colonies, which were pretty much straight exploitation, and "settler colonies" like the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and generously some of Iberian South America. In the "exploitative" colonies there was a thin crust of Europeans, who may have been permanent settlers compared to the large mass of natives (think India as the most obvious example of this). These colonies would simply have been unmanageable absent some intermediate layer of privileged natives and those of mixed race (but not "white") to do many of the tasks that needed to be done. In the settler colonies, very rapidly you ended up with white immigrants outnumbering the natives, and the need for such a middle group was unnecessary and in the case of some settler colonies like the USA and Brazil where natives were unsuitable for labor you had the importation of slaves, who, of course, had no rights. There was not a one size fits all model, in New Zealand you had an accommodation between settlers and Maori over time, in OTL's South Africa the settlers never became a majority for a variety of reasons etc.

I think we're largely on the same page. Drakia is a combination settler/exploitation colony though- sans that intermediate layer of natives they wouldn't be able to function. But yes- there's a big difference between settler colonies and explotative ones, and that will play a role in how the different British dominions play out.

Really enjoying the T/L.

Thank you. I'm enjoying your comments!

Hmm, the lack of mentioning of the situation in the far east is making me wonder if some of those countries (probably just China, it's almost always the Qing getting shafted, with good reasons usually but still) will be seeing a similar fate as their counterparts in The Napoléad timeline...

Ooh, what TL is this?

Wait, so why is the United States Anglicizing the names of formerly Mexican cities? I can understand wanting to Americanize the place to better bring it into the fold and teaching only English, not Spanish--it sounds like something OTL America would do. But America IOTL also holds a huge swath of territory taken from Mexico where the majority of the cities and counties--even a lot of the states--have Spanish names. San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Las Vegas, San Antonio, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, El Paso, Corpus Christi, Albuquerque, and Santa Fe--just to name a few--all leap out to me as explicitly Spanish, and a lot of them even appear in the traditionally white Texas.​

America isn't, because America largely doesn't care. The Criollos who largely run Old Mexico have been doing so as a symbolic way of showing how much they're Americanizing. It's a bit of convert's zeal plus "how do we Americanize in such a way that it doesn't give rights to the lower classes?"

Good update, but I think I missed something, I thought ITTL the democrats were still the party of the south and slavery, and the republicans still rose as the opposition party?

So IOTL the Jeffersonians founded a political party whose official name was the "Republican Party" that historians refer to as the "Democratic-Republican Party" to avoid confusing it with the modern Republican Party. The Democratic Republican Party fractured into factions and a faction led by Andrew Jackson adopted the name "Democratic Party" and became the part of the South and slavery before morphing into the modern Democrats.

ITTL the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republican Party existed and fractured as per OTL, but unlike OTL its surviving faction kept the official name of the original party- The Republican Party. The Republicans then went on to become the party of the South and Slavery. They were opposed by a Hamiltonian party calling itself "The Whig Party" that was essentially the OTL Federalists using one of the names for the Patriots during the American Revolution (who were also known as the American Whigs or just the Whigs). The Whigs were more successful than the Federalists due to greater support for a strong federal government to protect the country from Britain, and absorbed part of the Democratic-Republicans when they split. Eventually the northern Republicans split off and joined the Whigs while the southern Whigs either joined the Republicans or formed their own party, and the Whigs became the party of anti-slavery and racial equality, as well as being pro-business. The Republicans were reduced to a regional southern party only really competitive on the state level, and the Nationalist Party emerged to become the primary opposition to the Whigs.

Rest In Peace Mackenzie, you gave ITTL America your all. Also looked you up in OTL and damn your impressive...

He is- let's just make sure we don't confuse him with William Lyon Mackenzie King, who was someone else.

just love, getting predictions right Good to see the US manages to get Democracy working again...

You really nailed some guesses.

I love this bit of Irony and also love that name...

I do too. I'm trying to avoid the trap of giving everyone normal names. Occasionally you need names that are going to pop out at you.

very interesting ideology particularly how they get all races together however I have a bit of a issue with this bit:

Generally Culture is very hard to separate from Religion. trying to force them to fit the Anglophone mold will also inevitably try to push Protestantism. For example I doubt they are at all happy at Catholic Schools (established explicitly to preserve Catholicism and Catholic Culture aganst a extremely Protestant mainstream school system, not to mention Irish Culture)

You're absolutely right, I should have talked about this in the chapter. The Fascists are fine with people practicing other religions, but they have to otherwise act and dress like everyone else, and this naturally means being anti-some elements of religion. They would be strongly opposed to private Catholic schools, suspicious of the use of Latin instead of English while praying, and intolerant towards the Irish, French, and Hispanic cultures of most American Catholics. They'd also dislike Jews having sidelocks, or wearing skullcaps in public, and relying on Yiddish and Hebrew rather than English.

Like I said, there are some downsides to this movement. Some American Catholics will still end up supporting it, but Francophones in particular won't

Love these guys getting a much deserved shout out.

They don't get enough attention in AH, IMO.

Yeah this sucks, Minority rule and Cultural genocide...here's hoping it gets better before long...

It... yeah it sucks. If America were too good, or if the people it conquered just magically decided that they wanted to be Americans then I figured the TL would be boring. Besides America needs something to regret once it sobers up.

This is another element of suck...so much Culture in the inner cities of America, gone just like that. Makes you feel sad inside. One question about this, were groups like the Irish and Italians targeted? They got the brunt of attack from OTL and I can't imagine all the xenophobia aganst them just dryed up (especially the Irish). They would have a big defender though inside the Catholic Church (who would not appreciate Catholic Kids being forcefed protestantism far from there home and parents), so it may be Abit less hopefully.

Something like this. I was inspired by Israel's treatment of Ethiopian Jews when they first started immigrating in- one of the fellow congregants at my synagogue is Ethiopian and she's talked about how a lot of young Beta Yisroel were sent to boarding school designed to instill Israeli culture and "help them assimilate". By all accounts it was pretty awful.

Interesting...my guess is that their Isolationist types who aren't fans of the massive expansion types for both good (strains on the economy and the military needed to up keep it) and bad (damn foreginers mucking around) reasons, with a good dose of Economic populism to protect workers and break the trusts.

As long as Drakians/Drakans ultimately don't end up victorious in their quest for world domination. Distopias like the Draka-dominated globe are no more realistic than picture-perfect utopias are.

I haven't yet decided who wins- so a Drakian victory is possible. But if its does happen then it will look very different from the vanilla Drakaverse because I absolute agree- that sort of "boot on the human face forever" thing isn't realistic. There can never be a Final Society, something also comes after it.

Don't worry, I read enough hentai history books to be unfazed by anything!

(funny thing, I read The Bridge at Andau when I was in middle school, sometimes I still wondered why that book was in a middle school library)

When I was in 6th grade I discovered The Clan of the Cave Bear, The Valley of Horses, and The Mammoth Hunters in my elementary school library. Amazing that I turned out as well-adjusted as I did.

Fucking thicc Drakan making infees toil not for their own benefit...

I wonder when those SSOB’s will do TTL’s version of Cleansing Month.

There are some non-subtle shout-outs to the Madness in this TL- going with "superior" and "inferior" instead OTL Eugenics "fit" and "unfit" was part of that.

EDIT: How was California also divided, though?

Oh, a bunch of people moved into OTL Nevada and Utah after the discovery of silver in the region and California couldn't effectively control the area. The Federal government bought the land from California and spun it off as the State of Argentina.

1) Why exactly Russia is not effectively taking over Persia, even if as a de facto vassal? Those borders seem to just call for it, and I suppose the power differential allows that.
2) Although, to be honest, this Russia is fucking hugely huge anyway.
3) Dear God, Drakia is BIG.

1) Good question. Persia has been doing with Britain and Russia what Thailand did OTL with Britain and France to keep its independence- namely playing two great powers off each other to keep its independence. Persia's also tougher than OTL, it's been running modernization and industrialization programs.
2) And Russia also has its hands plenty full dealing with its chunks of China.
3) Si, senor.

I can see -some- native African 'princely states' adopting the eugenics craze for their own, particularly where there is a strong, distinct upper class. Some of the the 'martial races' also would take being called 'martial races' completely seriously, and buy in that way.

Ethnic identity is a hell of a drug.

Quite so- certainly at least for major physical disabilities and mental illnesses. The martial races of Drakia have invested pretty heavily into the "martial" identity that has won them favored status.

There is very real evidence that the discovery and understanding of evolution and the subsequent cultural response to it made people understand the world as a more cruel, capricious and uncaring than before. Which, of course, then made it so. In every sphere of existence.

People used evolution as a "scientific" excuse, slotting it into pre-existing ideas about superiority and inferiority. They came up with this idea that evolution favored those who were "better" and "stronger" instead of those who were most adaptive and capable of handling changing circumstances, which is what the science actually says.

Fuck Eugenics, Fuck Poverty, Fuck Racism, Fuck Aristocracy.

Those posters are horrifying.

They absolutely are, and they're from OTL America (except for the pictures from the book from France).

Is Arabia in 1900 under the Rashidis, Saudis, or Hashemites?

Hashemites!

So with the trend towards physical fitness in the West do we see a decline in smoking and alcohol consumption?

Yes, helped along by temperance movements similar to OTL. So more focused on less alcohol consumption, but less smoking too. In Drakia smoking is seen as a decadent Yankee practice.

What about an improvement in public health systems?

Some of that also, mostly focused on pregnant women and small children. Like OTL there's a reform movement pushing back against the negative health effects of industrialization.

Could you tell us more about the Drakian Princely States? Are they like the Princely States in India?

Very similar to the Princely States in India, although more of them are for martial races and act as sources of Auxiliary troops for the Drakian military.

So when does the US swallow the remaining Central American Republics?

Well we're going to need a canal can't let those pesky sovereign nations get in the way can we?

Banana wars time!

How high is the US population? It should be a lot higher then OTL, thanks to more territory and being a lot more accepting of other races.

Good question. I'll work out population numbers and include them in the next chapter.

Am I correct in reading the map that other than German Syria and Spanish Morocco, no countries other than the UK and the USA have "overseas posessions"?

I think French and Portuguese should have something, if only tiny islands and enclaves.

Yup, France and Portugal have some colonies. Russia also has territory that is colonial in a sense, but not really overseas except for Alaska. Oh and Spain does still have Puerto Rico and the Canaries.

How are the British colonies in China administered? And why isn't Taiwan British if Shanghai is ?

Directly by Britain. And because Britain didn't particularly want Taiwan? They had the rest of the East Indies, and India, and Indochina to focus on.

Ah Taiping Rebellion Expy gets to play Mao but with whacky religon instead of Communism earlier and with very little way to moderate (cults ussually cant this will not end well...

This is not going to end well...

*laughs evilly*

The American Empire continues its expansion. Sad to screw the Hawaiians and Dominicans (and in deed the Spanish, who have to deal with absolutist idiocy and eventually face Radical Geoism), wonder if our expansion will continue in that direction... Alt Facism can only do so much,we can’t take in so many new people and expect their cultures to die out or for them to sit back and take it. if we conquer say Indonesia or Indo China from the Brits next time we go at em, we are going to saddle ourselves a nice big Bomb in our laps...

"Libertas et Imperium" is one of the tags at the top of the page. In any case it'll all catch up to America eventually.

Interesting to see OTL failed nation’s stay together...

It could have happened OTL if Bolivar had been a little smarter, and a little less in love with centralized heavily-executive forms of government. If Washington had tried to strip away most of the powers of the states for the federal government then America would have gone the way that Gran Colombia did.

Good to see this coming about,wish the Christian Populists the best of Luck in the future.

We need good guys, or at least decent ones.

Okay, now wondering what’s its alt name?

I was thinking Utopianism?

Cool Ideology, but defnitley with the potential to radicalize...

Georgianism needs to be used more in Alternate History.

Yeah an Ideology like Geoism would do really well in the 19th Century USA, I assume their getting the cooperation of the *facists in getting those legislative successes.

Not as much as you'd think. A lot of the supporters for the Nationalist Party are going to be from groups like the Francophones who want to keep their cultures intact.

This will not end well at all...

Interesting, this got my wheels turning...due to the Hostilities of the last crusade I doubt pan nationalism will work with the Austrians and Bavarians, However fighting the Prussians could help bond them. Add in already similar cultural traditions and their Catholic religon and we may have the ingredients for a successful South German State.

There are German pan-nationalists active in Austria and Bavaria, so unification is still up in the air somewhat. It could happen, it could not. I honestly haven't decided.

Cool to see those guys emerge... wonder how successful they’ll be ITTL. Guess it depends on how much the German British run monstrosity in the Holy land allows in. Mind you, they may regret moving when the Draka show up (see predictions below)

At the moment the British and the Germans are willing to let Jews move in, the Russian who also have a vote and a veto in the Holy Land Tripartite Commission are less willing, but they've still permitted some settlements like Rishon LeZion and Petah Tikvah.

Love how they essentially pull a Franco Prussian war on the Germans, all you would need for it to be complete would be to have them marry in Aachen Cathedral for the exact amount of Humiliation the Germans are just to got.

That would have been the icing on the cake, wouldn't it?

Looking forward to see Air ships fall out of the air like rain as the awesome Drachen Flieger play the song of the valkryies on the job.

Before I get into the Depressing meat, can I say this card is cracking me up. I want to ask this doctor what exactly qualifies as Eugenic Love...

Same here, it just seems silly. Who cared enough to use one of these?

God, this is the most evil disgusting Ideology to infect our world, OTL and ITTL. I just want to take a shower after going through this, literally the only silver lining to me is the part about increased health awareness...

The increased health awareness is an ITTL thing- OTL we were administering alcohol to pregnant mother intravenously as late as the 1980s and OTL Eugenics played little role in improving public health. The best that can be said of OTL Eugenics that it spurred greater access to birth control.

Jesus, I really really don’t want to imagine how much horror this wreaked on the African population...thousands possibly millions dead just to keep fear...

It's only just started, and as I mentioned there are swathes of territory were government control is still pretty weak. But yes- the Euthenasia program will have killed over half a million by the time its extent becomes known globally. And if it keeps going then the body count will reach into the millions- the Nazi program that this inspired this one killed between 275,000 and 300,000 people in only six years.

this is the most horrifying thing I have read in AH, and to know it was based on real programs just makes my skin crawl... Now more than ever I want to burn the Draka state down to the ground and let it keep burning forever and ever.

The Dragon's Nest is based on a cross between the Nazi Lebensborn program, the Japanese comfort women, Conversion Therapy, and so-called "Corrective Rape".

Britian will eventually learn all the horrors of Draka and demand change, the Draka give them the middle finger and go for a war of Independence, taking all of Their Colonies in Africa and allowing their enemies to jump on them while their down (USA gets New Foundland and maybe territories in the Pacific, German Confederation has its ass handed to them again, this time by a South German State and Russia grabs their sphere of China). Also the Draka expand again, this time taking the Holy Land and Syria when their is a Rebellion (and knowing how messed up the German kingdom is it will happen), setting the ground work for the conquest of the Middle East

My plan is to roll dice to see how it goes- Drakia will roll to take territory with it when it secedes, Britain will roll to stop the, and America, Russia, and possibly France as well will roll to take territory from Britain also. If Britain rolls higher than Drakia then however higher the British roll will be subtracted from Drakia's roll, America and the others will have to beat the British roll to get anything.

It is unlikely but not impossible for Drakia to get a Nat Twenty, Britain to fumble, and most of the British Empire to end up being controlled by Drakia. It's also not impossible for America to Nat Twenty, Britain to roll low, and America to end up with Ireland. Probably not going to be that weird though.

Eh, their just as Evil but not in the same ball park as the NUSA in pure craziness. Say what you will about Draka, they don’t give their own kids Cocaine...

Yet.

Don't worry, it won't be cocaine.

 

[Simeon]

Don't worry, it won't be cocaine.

Laughs in Meth

 

[Gukpard]

Just one thing, it should be the Peru-Bolivian confederation, a state that existed OTL, not just big Peru

 

[President Earl Warren]

He is- let's just make sure we don't confuse him with William Lyon Mackenzie King, who was someone else.

Yeah that’s the Occult admiring, Sympathetic to Hitler (at least through the 30s) PM of Canada right.

You really nailed some guesses.

And as long as I live, I shall keep nailing it with this very large brain I have, doctors say the Warren Brain is the best in the world

I do too. I'm trying to avoid the trap of giving everyone normal names. Occasionally you need names that are going to pop out at you.

Yeah you do. The one complaint I shall give is that I wish you saved it for a good guy, because damn it’s too awesome to be given to a thieving murderous slaver bastard.

You're absolutely right, I should have talked about this in the chapter. The Fascists are fine with people practicing other religions, but they have to otherwise act and dress like everyone else, and this naturally means being anti-some elements of religion. They would be strongly opposed to private Catholic schools, suspicious of the use of Latin instead of English while praying, and intolerant towards the Irish, French, and Hispanic cultures of most American Catholics. They'd also dislike Jews having sidelocks, or wearing skullcaps in public, and relying on Yiddish and Hebrew rather than English.

Ah I get it, so it’s like “Sure practice your religion but don’t show it in public or your a damn foreigner” got it. How succssesfull have they been in clamping down on this sort of expression?

They don't get enough attention in AH, IMO.

Yeah they don’t.

Something like this. I was inspired by Israel's treatment of Ethiopian Jews when they first started immigrating in- one of the fellow congregants at my synagogue is Ethiopian and she's talked about how a lot of young Beta Yisroel were sent to boarding school designed to instill Israeli culture and "help them assimilate". By all accounts it was pretty awful.

I can imagine it was, really ought to look that group up... but I think you missed the main point of my question (which in fairness to you I should of been more clear about), How are the Irish and Italians doing? Are they also being sent to these boarding schools or is it too much of a Hassle due to the Church getting ready to fight to the ends of hell over it? For that matter has the Church School system been Set up yet ITTL?

It... yeah it sucks. If America were too good, or if the people it conquered just magically decided that they wanted to be Americans then I figured the TL would be boring. Besides America needs something to regret once it sobers up.

True...always good to have regrets like that and you got to be either Realistic or super crazy to keep ones interest. Like all due respect to HeX and his Tl but it blew the plausibility effects completely away in the latest update, having Fredrick Douglas and Victoria Wood Hull (seriously she’d be on the Radical Feminist circles even today.) in the White House just blew my Suspension of Disbelif out of the water

I haven't yet decided who wins- so a Drakian victory is possible. But if its does happen then it will look very different from the vanilla Drakaverse because I absolute agree- that sort of "boot on the human face forever" thing isn't realistic. There can never be a Final Society, something also comes after it.

Oh god, please just No Draka victory... even when they collapse we’re going to get A Horrible War plagued era which will be the worst failures of De Colonization and the Balkans rolled into one. I shall now go Pray to The Dice gods very fervently.

*laughs evilly*

You know I once got a dream while writing a dystopian tl which I never managed to get into publishing ready, that all the people from the Tl forced me to suffer everything they had to suffer... you ever get anything similar?

Not as much as you'd think. A lot of the supporters for the Nationalist Party are going to be from groups like the Francophones who want to keep their cultures intact.

interesting, I was mostly referring to the Economic stuff they were getting away with, I assume they join up with Local Whigs to get Cultural preservation stuff through.

We need good guys, or at least decent ones.

Of course,especially when the opposition is so monstrous (Eugenics mainly)

I was thinking Utopianism?

Bit generic but works out...

There are German pan-nationalists active in Austria and Bavaria, so unification is still up in the air somewhat. It could happen, it could not. I honestly haven't decided.

I’d prefer they don’t unite or if they do it be under Austria and a south German state because I’ve never seen it in a Tl

At the moment the British and the Germans are willing to let Jews move in, the Russian who also have a vote and a veto in the Holy Land Tripartite Commission are less willing, but they've still permitted some settlements like Rishon LeZion and Petah Tikvah.

Ah, the Russkies what perfect anti Semitic assholes right around this period. What are the Jewish relations with the Native Arabs like?

It could have happened OTL if Bolivar had been a little smarter, and a little less in love with centralized heavily-executive forms of government. If Washington had tried to strip away most of the powers of the states for the federal government then America would have gone the way that Gran Colombia did.

Ah Bolivar, you are such a interesting figure whose success despite his extreme ego and to be honest bouts of stupidity always fascinated me.

The increased health awareness is an ITTL thing- OTL we were administering alcohol to pregnant mother intravenously as late as the 1980s and OTL Eugenics played little role in improving public health. The best that can be said of OTL Eugenics that it spurred greater access to birth control.

Ah okay, so OTL it did literally no good things (I disagree on birth control but let’s not get into chat territory shall we). Kinda horrifying we had that stupid medical idea so late...

The Dragon's Nest is based on a cross between the Nazi Lebensborn program, the Japanese comfort women, Conversion Therapy, and so-called "Corrective Rape".

I know the last first three but “Corrective Rape”, let me please spend some time throwing up... how long was this advanced as a Medical Concept? If it’s around today, I’m going to go take a Shower with Acid in it.

It's only just started, and as I mentioned there are swathes of territory were government control is still pretty weak. But yes- the Euthenasia program will have killed over half a million by the time its extent becomes known globally. And if it keeps going then the body count will reach into the millions- the Nazi program that this inspired this one killed between 275,000 and 300,000 people in only six years.

Oh god have Mercey... By the end of the regime, this will be the biggest killer in human history.

My plan is to roll dice to see how it goes- Drakia will roll to take territory with it when it secedes, Britain will roll to stop the, and America, Russia, and possibly France as well will roll to take territory from Britain also. If Britain rolls higher than Drakia then however higher the British roll will be subtracted from Drakia's roll, America and the others will have to beat the British roll to get anything.

It is unlikely but not impossible for Drakia to get a Nat Twenty, Britain to fumble, and most of the British Empire to end up being controlled by Drakia. It's also not impossible for America to Nat Twenty, Britain to roll low, and America to end up with Ireland. Probably not going to be that weird though.

That’s a interesting system to run a Tl on, could help especially when you don’t know what to do but it definitely has its disadvantages, hopefully you don’t fall into letting those write you into a trap (for example, say the Draka roll one while the Brits roll something high, that ends the Draka before you even reach the 20th century, meaning you don’t have much of a story lef

Don't worry, it won't be cocaine.

yay Marijuna for all...

 

[Whiteshore]

2) And Russia also has its hands plenty full dealing with its chunks of China.

At least the Manchu and Mongols, due to the Tian's policies towards them, are relatively quiet under Russian rule as the "lesser of two evils", right?

 

[Kalga]

Ooh, what TL is this?

This one: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-napoléad-what-if-napoléon-won-the-war-in-russia.437352/

Including Qing China taking 46 nukes to the face (yes I'm intentionally leaving out the context, it's funnier that way), among other things... I'd highly recommend it.

Edit: it was only 46 nukes

 

[Glory2Cabinda]

Britian will eventually learn all the horrors of Draka and demand change, the Draka give them the middle finger and go for a war of Independence, taking all of Their Colonies in Africa and allowing their enemies to jump on them while their down (USA gets New Foundland and maybe territories in the Pacific, German Confederation has its ass handed to them again, this time by a South German State and Russia grabs their sphere of China). Also the Draka expand again, this time taking the Holy Land and Syria when their is a Rebellion (and knowing how messed up the German kingdom is it will happen), setting the ground work for the conquest of the Middle East[/QUOTE].

I really doubt if the Drakia have the manpower and logistics to take over all of Africa and govern the place. Their a small group of settlers trying to subjugated a entire continent it's not going to happen. And to top this all they would take over the Levant. Pure ASB the amount of Africans and Arabs dwarf the Drakia population it makes the whites in south Africa during the 70s look has plentifully has the Chinese in comparison.

 

[GDIS Pathe]

Britian will eventually learn all the horrors of Draka and demand change, the Draka give them the middle finger and go for a war of Independence, taking all of Their Colonies in Africa and allowing their enemies to jump on them while their down (USA gets New Foundland and maybe territories in the Pacific, German Confederation has its ass handed to them again, this time by a South German State and Russia grabs their sphere of China). Also the Draka expand again, this time taking the Holy Land and Syria when their is a Rebellion (and knowing how messed up the German kingdom is it will happen), setting the ground work for the conquest of the Middle East

Don't see it Britain is still rather formidable power and can draw on both its loyalist African dominions and its overseas empire for troops. On top of it fighting in Africa is going to be hell limited lines of supply and a hostile environment is going to make supplying any troops far more of a problem than enemy action. And Britain has a larger navy. Which means it could theoretically threaten the entire length of the Drakan coast.

Also, I do not see the Germans losing to Bavaria and Austria the defeat to the Danes is going to cause some long hard looks at their military which means that if Vienna and Munich choose to attack they'll be facing a freshly reformed Heer smarting from their defeat with the Scandi's not gonna give good odds to the South Germans.

 

[The Congressman]

I'm liking the alt-US, especially it's alliances abroad. Drakia... I'm imagining a worse version of the Freedom Party Confederacy developing

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

Laughs in Meth

So on an interesting note that is in no way foreshadowing, are familiar with some of the early state-sanctioned uses for Meth IOTL?

Just one thing, it should be the Peru-Bolivian confederation, a state that existed OTL, not just big Peru

Not in a TL where Simon Bolivar failed to become prominent. Peru and Bolivia were originally known as Upper and Lower Peru IOTL, and ITTL they have kept those names and naturlich their union is simply Peru.

Yeah that’s the Occult admiring, Sympathetic to Hitler (at least through the 30s) PM of Canada right.

Yup.

And as long as I live, I shall keep nailing it with this very large brain I have, doctors say the Warren Brain is the best in the world

Sounds like a bigly brain you have.

Yeah you do. The one complaint I shall give is that I wish you saved it for a good guy, because damn it’s too awesome to be given to a thieving murderous slaver bastard.

I was inspired by General States Rights Gist of the OTL Confederate Army and of course William Tecumseh Sherman of the US Army but decided to double down on crazy names.

Ah I get it, so it’s like “Sure practice your religion but don’t show it in public or your a damn foreigner” got it. How succssesfull have they been in clamping down on this sort of expression?

Something like that. Not super successful because while most Americans share their view that you can become an American regardless of your race, the Fascist movement specifically is only one wing of the Whig Party. They've successfully legislated against religious schools in a lot of places- banning public money from being used to support such schools, refusing to recognize diplomas from parochial or non-public schools, and have put a lot of material designed to encourage assimilation into public school curriculum. In a couple of states you have laws similar to OTL banning outward displays of religion that really only impact Jews who want to wear skullcaps.

I can imagine it was, really ought to look that group up... but I think you missed the main point of my question (which in fairness to you I should of been more clear about), How are the Irish and Italians doing? Are they also being sent to these boarding schools or is it too much of a Hassle due to the Church getting ready to fight to the ends of hell over it? For that matter has the Church School system been Set up yet ITTL?

Sorry about that, I got distracted and didn't respond to all of your question. The Irish are generally fine as they're mostly English-speakers from the get-go and they don't dress or act that differently from Americans anyway. The Italians do face more discrimination, but both groups are doing better than OTL. Italy is an ally of America's best buddy France and the Irish staunch foes of evil Britain. Plus the Pope endorsed America during the Civil War, and that abated a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment. The boarding schools are aimed at immigrant children or the first generation children of immigrants mainly, or at the children of ethnic communities who don't seem to be integrating. That can be Italians, it's rarely if ever Irish, but is more focused on immigrants from China or Eastern Europe like Poles, Russians, Serbs, etc.

True...always good to have regrets like that and you got to be either Realistic or super crazy to keep ones interest. Like all due respect to HeX and his Tl but it blew the plausibility effects completely away in the latest update, having Fredrick Douglas and Victoria Wood Hull (seriously she’d be on the Radical Feminist circles even today.) in the White House just blew my Suspension of Disbelif out of the water

I like Hex and I like what he's trying to do, but I agree with you. It's also started to feel a little... preordained? Like everything's going to go well and we mostly know how by now.

Oh god, please just No Draka victory... even when they collapse we’re going to get A Horrible War plagued era which will be the worst failures of De Colonization and the Balkans rolled into one. I shall now go Pray to The Dice gods very fervently.

I guess we'll find out, won't we?

You know I once got a dream while writing a dystopian tl which I never managed to get into publishing ready, that all the people from the Tl forced me to suffer everything they had to suffer... you ever get anything similar?

Sounds like an omen to stop writing the TL.

I've never had that dream, but I did once dream that I became famous for some reason and people found my old TLs and started asked me awkward and accusatory questions about Rebel North.

interesting, I was mostly referring to the Economic stuff they were getting away with, I assume they join up with Local Whigs to get Cultural preservation stuff through.

The Fascists don't really have a clear economic platform, so it's entirely conceivable that they'd be willing to form occasional alliances with the Nationalists.

Bit generic but works out...

I'd love to have someone recommend a better name- it was that or Radical Socialism.

I’d prefer they don’t unite or if they do it be under Austria and a south German state because I’ve never seen it in a Tl

You know, I don't think I've seen that either.

Ah, the Russkies what perfect anti Semitic assholes right around this period. What are the Jewish relations with the Native Arabs like?

Okay at the moment, as the Jewish community is fairly small and Arab Nationalism hasn't really spread to the masses yet. Some minor land issues- the Zionists have been buying that belonged to absentee Turkish landowners before the Last Crusade and then settling on that land, sparking occasional confrontations with the previous Arab tenants. Not too different from OTL.

Ah okay, so OTL it did literally no good things (I disagree on birth control but let’s not get into chat territory shall we). Kinda horrifying we had that stupid medical idea so late...

A position I respect, even if I don't agree with it. Yeah, there's probably some stupid medical stuff we're doing right now though that our kids will laugh at.

I know the last first three but “Corrective Rape”, let me please spend some time throwing up... how long was this advanced as a Medical Concept? If it’s around today, I’m going to go take a Shower with Acid in it.

I'm sorry to be telling you this.

South Africa is one of the worst offenders- you have families seeking it out as a means to "cure" LGBT children (usually girls), often by forcing their lesbian daughters into involuntary marriages. India is another place where the practice is known to occur, and there are "clinics" in Ecuador where it's part of the conversion therapy there.

Oh god have Mercey... By the end of the regime, this will be the biggest killer in human history.

In this TL, probably.

That’s a interesting system to run a Tl on, could help especially when you don’t know what to do but it definitely has its disadvantages, hopefully you don’t fall into letting those write you into a trap (for example, say the Draka roll one while the Brits roll something high, that ends the Draka before you even reach the 20th century, meaning you don’t have much of a story lef

That is a possibility that concerns me- it would be a huge let-down if Drakia ended up a damp squib. Worst case scenario I can roll again, but I'll let you know if I do.

At least the Manchu and Mongols, due to the Tian's policies towards them, are relatively quiet under Russian rule as the "lesser of two evils", right?

Eh... they're all "heathen Asiatic sub-humans" to Russia, but Russia has been singling out the Manchus as the former rulers of the region and therefore a potential threat.

This one: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-napoléad-what-if-napoléon-won-the-war-in-russia.437352/

Including Qing China taking 47 nukes to the face (yes I'm intentionally leaving out the context, it's funnier that way), among other things... I'd highly recommend it.

Thank you.

I really doubt if the Drakia have the manpower and logistics to take over all of Africa and govern the place. Their a small group of settlers trying to subjugated a entire continent it's not going to happen. And to top this all they would take over the Levant. Pure ASB the amount of Africans and Arabs dwarf the Drakia population it makes the whites in south Africa during the 70s look has plentifully has the Chinese in comparison.

Drakia also has some fairly large favored castes of collaborators to extend their numbers, and their white population is a lot larger than OTL South Africa due to heavier and earlier immigration and a higher birth rate. Mostly though, it's the co-operation of a large chunk of natives that makes it work.

 

[Whiteshore]

So, how will Drakia react to Parliament's hearings regarding Ms. Audrey's testiomonies? Will there be atempts to assassinate her on the basis that "dead (wo)men tell no tales"?

 

[Simeon]

@Ephraim Ben Raphael : why not have it prescribed by doctors like how they currently do to amphetamines IOTL?

 

[HonestAbe1809]

The point about the Drakians missing the point of adaptability in regards to evolution makes me think that Drakia/Draka’s arrogance and inflexibility would be a major hindrance to, if not the downfall of, their plans of global conquest. That seems like a natural consequence of them basically taking the world’s most hidebound reactionaries for decades.

 

[Mr_Fanboy]

Looking at the last map, the fact that this is a Draka timeline could very well distract someone from the fact that this is truly a Russia wank of epic proportions.

 

[fluttersky]

I can see -some- native African 'princely states' adopting the eugenics craze for their own, particularly where there is a strong, distinct upper class. Some of the the 'martial races' also would take being called 'martial races' completely seriously, and buy in that way.

Ethnic identity is a hell of a drug.

That could happen in Kenya maybe?