Separated at Birth: America and Drakia

[Leonidas]

Nice, I was hoping we'd get to see more about Rhomania at some point! How Hellenized ("Rhomanized?") would their northern territories in the Balkans be after decades of Rhomanian control? The update states that minorities are expected to assimilate into the national culture, so I'm curious how that would play out in the Slavic regions of Bulgaria, Bosnia, and Serbia. (I'm assuming Albania and Dalmatia are less of an issue, due to their color on the map and closer cultural proximity to Greece IOTL.) Would this expectation of conformity result in some form of syncretism between the cultures of the Romios and their Slavic subjects that incorporates aspects of both? Orthodox Christianity has clearly played a major role in unifying the people, although that wouldn't be of much help in Bosnia unless the Bosniaks were forced to convert on threat of deportation or something along those lines. Perhaps the exceedingly poor fortune of Russia has hampered pan-Slavic nationalism and made the South Slavs more amenable to Romanitas as a path of advancement. Also, despite the clearly homogeneous nature of Rhomanian culture, Rome was historically quite open to people from diverse cultural backgrounds, which could translate to the modern Rhomanian identity being more flexible than that of a "Greek" or "Hellene." Very interesting update, good job!

Also, bit of a side question here, but what's happened to all the non-black Bonded people from Russia? I seem to recall there was a significant influx of Ukrainians, Central Asians, etc. who were victims of Rodinist and Societist Russian efforts to get Drakian economic support and ethnically cleanse the country. However, I'm uncertain whether these imported workers, or at least their descendants, were said to eventually be able to escape the BLS and possibly even assimilate into Drakian culture as White Citizens, or at least Nationals. It would make sense for the Empire to take advantage of the situation to increase its loyal white (and "honorary white") population, but it might not be feasible in all cases, and the Bonded workers' experiences would probably have a dampening effect on their love for the state, to put it lightly.

 

[Herucalmo]

The Romanitas is roman-themed mythology around the state, and the status quo, of the kingdoms. They're no more going to diverge from their cultural supremist line in favor of ancient Roman mores any then they're going to bring back gladiatorial games and state-sponsored sibyls. The Albanians, Montenegrins, Serbians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosniaks, Aromanians, Croats, etc... are going to be trapped as second class citizens where any public (and increasingly, private) display of non-Hellenic non-Orthodox cultural practices are stamped out, but are certainly not left as free to advance in rank and social power as "pure" Greeks.

 

[Leonidas]

The Romanitas is roman-themed mythology around the state, and the status quo, of the kingdoms. They're no more going to diverge from their cultural supremist line in favor of ancient Roman mores any then they're going to bring back gladiatorial games and state-sponsored sibyls. The Albanians, Montenegrins, Serbians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosniaks, Aromanians, Croats, etc... are going to be trapped as second class citizens where any public (and increasingly, private) display of non-Hellenic non-Orthodox cultural practices are stamped out, but are certainly not left as free to advance in rank and social power as "pure" Greeks.

Well yes, perhaps my original post sounded overly optimistic. I was imagining something akin to a more strictly enforced version of TTL's Fascism, in which one's blood quantum is less relevant for success than whether one assimilates to the dominant culture. Less of the Nazis' crazed search for Jewish ancestry or the American "one-drop rule," more like "you have to be Orthodox and speak Greek as a minimum for advancement." After all, in order to displace the Turkish population in Anatolia with Rhomanian colonia, they'd probably have to be a bit more flexible in their enforcement of the cultural mold on the frontier at first, since having loyal, tax-paying warm bodies in the new settlements is more important.

 

[Murica1776]

Well yes, perhaps my original post sounded overly optimistic. I was imagining something akin to a more strictly enforced version of TTL's Fascism, in which one's blood quantum is less relevant for success than whether one assimilates to the dominant culture. Less of the Nazis' crazed search for Jewish ancestry or the American "one-drop rule," more like "you have to be Orthodox and speak Greek as a minimum for advancement." After all, in order to displace the Turkish population in Anatolia with Rhomanian colonia, they'd probably have to be a bit more flexible in their enforcement of the cultural mold on the frontier at first, since having loyal, tax-paying warm bodies in the new settlements is more important.

I imagine the Turks aren't tolerated, but everyone else in their territory who obeys their rules and assimilates is treated as a Romio, so I think you have something there. It helps that the people of the Balkans aren't too different ethnically speaking.

 

[Frame]

I love these mini updates this world is so fascinating and its so fun exploring the supporting cast of nations. Germany Scandinavia or Brazil would be awesome subjects for the next one

 

[viper23]

Sorry to introduce another topic, but...

...What would Free China do once they realize they have the Atomic Bomb?

Like, seriously. I'd been operating under the assumption that China would announce what it has with a flashy nuclear test and then discretely assist the Free World with their own weapon programs, but that assumes that China assumes that a post-Draka world would be relatively peaceful ala post-Cold War, and that's not necessarily a guarantee given the ideological rifts between Fascism and Situationism--rifts that are minor now compared to Societism, but might well become causes for armed conflict within a few generations post-Draka.

I can see a few other options:

1. Demonstrate it has The Bomb, give out misinformation to everyone to trip them up. This seems the most !Situationist! option, and also the stupidest one--it pisses off everyone and lets the secret out for no gain but a delay on nuclear research.

2. Don't demonstrate it has The Bomb, share only the basic science and civilian applications (nuclear power reactors) and let the Free World sort out its own bombs. From the Situationist perspective this is a quite smart option--it encourages the further peaceful development of the technology to reduce resource pressures and thus the causes for wars. The implication that The Bomb exists, and that China has it, is made implicit by the basic science to those knowledgeable without tainting the public's view of the technology with a dramatic demonstration of its weaponization.

3. Silent running the whole way. No demonstration, no civilian applications, as much or as little misinformation as needed to complete the deception. Amass a humongous arsenal to compensate for the inevitable misfires from using an untested Bomb in combat. This requires buying into the militaristic mindset of the rest of the world, and also assumes that someone else doesn't stumble onto The Bomb before China has to use it.

 

[free115]

The main thing with nuclear bomb research is its insanely expensive and resources taxing to the point the more competent intelligence agencies are gonna notice China diverting vast some of its industrial and intellectual capacity into one project.

 

[viper23]

The main thing with nuclear bomb research is its insanely expensive and resources taxing to the point the more competent intelligence agencies are gonna notice China diverting vast some of its industrial and intellectual capacity into one project.

Yeah, that was one of the objections to 3. that I couldn't put to words at the time. Any obscurity on something this big is going to have a short shelf life.

It probably wouldn't be impossible to mislead onlookers as to the exact nature of the weapon(and they will assume it's a weapon, nothing else in this world warrants this much attention). But it would require making atomic theory a state secret.

 

[pattontank12]

While looking at the history of the Bunkers in Albania it got me thinking of how Drakian settlements were historically, highly organized affairs. Being closer to colonial forts or military outposts then typical frontier towns, in the American west. Which honestly kind of lines up with how gated communities in places South Africa tend to come with barb wire, armed security forces etc. I'm picturing the majority of Drakian cities (at least citizen majority or plurality) are along the lines of Citadel Cities, especially in the newer territories. Being heavily fortified against any possible bondsman revolts with bunker complexes, machine gun nests, Flak tower's, trench lines, even massive walls straight out of medieval fantasy.

 

[Simeon]

I can see a few other options:

1. Demonstrate it has The Bomb, give out misinformation to everyone to trip them up. This seems the most !Situationist! option, and also the stupidest one--it pisses off everyone and lets the secret out for no gain but a delay on nuclear research.

2. Don't demonstrate it has The Bomb, share only the basic science and civilian applications (nuclear power reactors) and let the Free World sort out its own bombs. From the Situationist perspective this is a quite smart option--it encourages the further peaceful development of the technology to reduce resource pressures and thus the causes for wars. The implication that The Bomb exists, and that China has it, is made implicit by the basic science to those knowledgeable without tainting the public's view of the technology with a dramatic demonstration of its weaponization.

3. Silent running the whole way. No demonstration, no civilian applications, as much or as little misinformation as needed to complete the deception. Amass a humongous arsenal to compensate for the inevitable misfires from using an untested Bomb in combat. This requires buying into the militaristic mindset of the rest of the world, and also assumes that someone else doesn't stumble onto The Bomb before China has to use it.

Number one just reeks of SPECTACLE for me, so no. The Chinese would either go for option 2, or better yet 3. ("better yet" not in the sense of scaling up by making it into an international effort, but having the exclusivity over it for the foreseeable future.

 

[viper23]

Number one just reeks of SPECTACLE for me, so no.

How so?

Revealing something completely game-changing and then letting everyone bark up the wrong tree sounds exactly like the kind of prank Sun Wukong would pull.

While looking at the history of the Bunkers in Albania it got me thinking of how Drakian settlements were historically, highly organized affairs. Being closer to colonial forts or military outposts then typical frontier towns, in the American west. Which honestly kind of lines up with how gated communities in places South Africa tend to come with barb wire, armed security forces etc. I'm picturing the majority of Drakian cities (at least citizen majority or plurality) are along the lines of Citadel Cities, especially in the newer territories. Being heavily fortified against any possible bondsman revolts with bunker complexes, machine gun nests, Flak tower's, trench lines, even massive walls straight out of medieval fantasy.

Curtain walls are massive overkill for counterinsurgency, though, and not at all useful against modern armies.

In fact, most of these measures are massive overkill. If the Bondsmen are getting their hands on enough firepower to overcome armed security it is past time to send in the Army.

 

[pattontank12]

I wonder a Medieval America version of Drakia would look like considering how heavily Africa and the Middle East has been altered.

How so?

Revealing something completely game-changing and then letting everyone bark up the wrong tree sounds exactly like the kind of prank Sun Wukong would pull.


Curtain walls are massive overkill for counterinsurgency, though, and not at all useful against modern armies.

In fact, most of these measures are massive overkill. If the Bondsmen are getting their hands on enough firepower to overcome armed security it is past time to send in the Army.

Hey there's no kill like overkill, which is something that the Drakian's are all to familiar with.

 

[viper23]

Hey there's no kill like overkill, which is something that the Drakian's are all to familiar with.

Lemme rephrase that.

Curtain walls don't really do anything that barbed wire fences or Hesco bastions can't do besides being more permanent and more expensive.

All of these measures take money to construct and maintain while not doing anything until an emergency crops up. Whereas a robust transportation system and the Army are always useful for something.

 

[Alexander the Average]

What if the Chinese announce they have the bomb by nuking the moon? Ideally the day before the Drakians attempt their moon landing.

 

[Falecius]

What if the Chinese announce they have the bomb by nuking the moon? Ideally the day before the Drakians attempt their moon landing.

They'd need a heck of a space gun of their own to do that.

 

[Alexander the Average]

I just found out that there was an OTL plan by the US to nuke the moon...for research purposes. One of the reasons it was cancelled was due to concerns that the additional radiation would undermine future colonisation efforts and whilsr this was somewhat unfounded, given the high levels of radiation on the moon already, I could see the Chinese doing it as a way to deny the Drakians from attempting to colonise and militarise the moon.

 

[AlexG]

I just found out that there was an OTL plan by the US to nuke the moon...for research purposes. One of the reasons it was cancelled was due to concerns that the additional radiation would undermine future colonisation efforts and whilsr this was somewhat unfounded, given the high levels of radiation on the moon already, I could see the Chinese doing it as a way to deny the Drakians from attempting to colonise and militarise the moon.

It wasn't cancelled. Galileo the monkey might have treacherously questioned why we wanted to blow up the moon, but he was replaced with a monkey that didn't know sign language and the plan went off without a hitch.

I mean come on dude, it was the biggest reason President Corngood got re-elected.

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJ3LIA5LmA&ab_channel=LaserTime

 

[manitobot]

text

Really well said. If post-Draka happens, it would be with morbid fascination to look at the new cultures that came from Bondsmen, or perhaps a Bonds culture in general, that is a syncretized, diffusive mixture of mainly African, but also Middle Eastern and Eastern European/Central Asian culture.

 

[Spimi Remun]

While looking at the history of the Bunkers in Albania it got me thinking of how Drakian settlements were historically, highly organized affairs. Being closer to colonial forts or military outposts then typical frontier towns, in the American west. Which honestly kind of lines up with how gated communities in places South Africa tend to come with barb wire, armed security forces etc. I'm picturing the majority of Drakian cities (at least citizen majority or plurality) are along the lines of Citadel Cities, especially in the newer territories. Being heavily fortified against any possible bondsman revolts with bunker complexes, machine gun nests, Flak tower's, trench lines, even massive walls straight out of medieval fantasy.

This is an excellent point, and also some absolutely wild history I knew nothing about. (I swear, this sort of thing is half the reason I come on this site; it's just so damned informative) Many thanks to pattontank12 for that.

Obviously, much like the Albanian bunkers have demonstrated, fortifications aren't particularly practical, especially when those resources could be used for more useful things like a modern army. And people have quite logically and reasonably pointed this out, as they should.

But has anyone considered this?

The Drakia are bat-guano crazy. They don't think like us.

If they were, by our standards, sane, reasonable, logical people then there would be no God's Own Sling, no Agoge, no Homo Drakensis... heck, there wouldn't be a modern Drakia in the first place. Sometimes people do things for reasons that are not entirely practical, or for reasons that made sense to them at the time. I'm sure that you could all name a dozen examples. And this is Drakia. Sometimes they do things just for the psychological aspect; walls and bunker complexes might not be all that practical or useful, but they have emotional effects far beyond their usefulness. They help reinforce the persecution complex of White Citizens: "clearly, we need these walls to protect us. the STATE protects us by giving us these walls. SERVICE TO THE STATE!" And also they make a convenient place to put up massive propaganda murals, hang posters, and also hang protestors and other undesirables.
Big walls and fortifications also might be constructed to impress the futility of rebellion on the Bonded. They provide an obstacle, and also a grim and constant reminder that the STATE protects the RACE, and while the Bonded are bound by the law, they aren't under its protection. It's a constant and looming reminder of inferiority.
People don't always do things for logical or practical reasons. Sometimes in real life they do some pretty crazy stuff, and I think we should remember that.

 

[traveller76]

I think the Drakia would work on Biological and Chemical weapons. Especially weapons that could be used to disrupt crops, kill off livestock to combat guerrillas and create invasive species as a form of sabotage.