What is the status of the Sikh Empire and the Afghani's? How are the British treating the East India Company and India?
Separated at Birth: America and Drakia
- Thread starter Ephraim Ben Raphael
- Start date
Hey I just want to say how much I like this thread. The Drakaverse is a tad silly in my opinion, and this seems to be bringing some reason to the whole thing. I like your writing style, I like how you are getting the better tech and different South Africa, and I really liked your alt-ACW (I'm a Civil War guy myself).
Anywho, I don't post a lot, but I wanted to make sure to publicly say how much I like this thread!
Anywho, I don't post a lot, but I wanted to make sure to publicly say how much I like this thread!
Why didn't Russia take all of Armenia, something like this? It seems odd that they'd only take the eastern half- which leaves their corridor to Mesopotamia being very narrow.
My prediction is that America will directly annex Veracruz and the Isthmus of Tehuantepec as a new state (thus giving Ixcanha a land connection to the rest of America, and also ensuring American control of the major Tehuantepec shipping route and potential canal route. And that they'll let the rest of Mexico have independence again, to save the headache of annexation.
I'm guessing HIV.
More interesting but less likely answer: Congo dam + lake.
You know what else English channel blocks Germany from?
Pretty much entire rest of Ocean.
Going around British isles by northern route is also pretty much impossible if you have war with them.
Either Germans wage war with British or not. If yes, all colonies are blockaded from Germany anyways.
All German colonies that are further away than Heligoland are indefensible.
what if Germany were at war with Spain? Italy? Morrco Tripoli’s then they are also cut off, Syria is a untenable postiton that no one would have wanted and would have not been govern by the German confredation because it was the German version of the un but worse.
Neither of those matter. Only UK and US have navies that simultaneously overpower German navy AND cannot be fought on land. War with France or Italy? Fight them on land, colonies are distraction. War with Morocco? "Hans, I think we are gonna be okay."
there is no navy Germany navy and there no Germany Army or navy there is a legastive body and that it and Spain navy or Sicily itatly would be able to overpower Prussia navy the one that has the most coastline in Baltic and North Sea and would be able to overpower anyone else
navy too morrco they have a decent shot and if you are are going to just give up the colonies without a fight then what the point?
Ouch, poor, poor Mexico. With casualties that bad there's a chance they could be sucked up by the US; they'd only be ~1/5th of the population, but even in this relatively more tolerant alt-US it'd be hard for the Anglos or Mexicans to be happy with any arrangement. Perhaps some sort of Puerto-Rico situation will develop for a while. Looking at the US map, what happened to Michigan? Did the Toledo war go way far in Ohio's favor? 
I'm guessing the number of Midwestern states was cut down because of the smaller number of Southern states TTL, but why that horrific border between alt-Ohio and alt-Indiana?
Stalemate on the Rhine and the Ottomans and AH collapsing seems a plausible outcome to me. France has got to be in for some demographic pain, especially with (presumably) more immigration to the Francophile US and Draka. Russia seems to be the big winner here carving out a nice sphere of influence in the Balkans and Middle East. Wonder if that'll awaken some British or Prussian Russophobia. Speaking of Prussia, how dependent were they on Russian support during the crusade? Can't see them surviving the French and Austrians without some major military and economic aid from Russia (and maybe Britain).
I'm guessing the number of Midwestern states was cut down because of the smaller number of Southern states TTL, but why that horrific border between alt-Ohio and alt-Indiana?Stalemate on the Rhine and the Ottomans and AH collapsing seems a plausible outcome to me. France has got to be in for some demographic pain, especially with (presumably) more immigration to the Francophile US and Draka. Russia seems to be the big winner here carving out a nice sphere of influence in the Balkans and Middle East. Wonder if that'll awaken some British or Prussian Russophobia. Speaking of Prussia, how dependent were they on Russian support during the crusade? Can't see them surviving the French and Austrians without some major military and economic aid from Russia (and maybe Britain).
There was no German Army in 1914 either, there were Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon and Württemberg armies which maintained distinct identities. That little technical detail was of little comfort to the Belgians.
And Navy will grow, especially now that there are colonies to protect.
They wouldn't be giving colonies without a fight. Germans keep fighting in East Africa, which was much further away than Syria, right up until armistice. In fact, they captured a city two days after armistice was signed, because they didn't knew they lost.
Do you actually think Morroccan navy could beat Prussian/German navy, or are you just trolling us at this point?
1. The German condfredation is a legastive body with no power they don’t have an army and you keep think Germany is a united countrie in all but name that is not true in anyway of Prussia went to war with Russia the rest of the German confederation would not follow they are not a defensive league it is a un like organization to discuss thing. Could you please back up that edvinced for a Bavarian or Saxon Army? Also we are not in 1914 we are in 1852 After the French Prussian war they united into one countrie. You keep thinking that German confredation is a united countries in all but name that is not true at all it is a organization for discussing stuff. The name is though misleading, seriously but you got replace the HRE somehow The German states are very disunited, they are not united so it not a technicality they are separate countries with separate navies armies forgien policy exc. they are not united. 2. East Africa and Syria are different situation one is a desert region worth very little infrastructure that made it easier to defend while Syria has more infrastructure and is surrounded by power that can steam roll it and it would not be the back back front but would be a higher priority in anyway due to proximity to Europe. Russia could steamroll the colony, turkey after rebuilding would be a threat and Britain and the problem to build a navy to defend the colony you just ignited Britain number fear and so you start pushing toward war toward Britain and then when you get into a war you lose the colony with Britain right next door. That thing to build a navy to defend the colony you piss off Britain and then you are just repeating otl event with Britoan
3. If the danish navy was able to stop all maritime traffic and the navy (Prussia)when they were at war what unrealistic about morrco that would prob have even a bigger navy.
4. also just realized that the conservatives and Bismarck would prevent them from asking for it in negotiations because they wouldn’t want and Prussia would refuse to put troops there or there “navy” there ether which mean the whole colony untenable. Since without Austria in the confederation Prussia controls it. Side note: it super surprising the southern Germany states are still part of it without Austria
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I'm seconding rinderpest. Maybe combine that with nomadic waves caused by Drakian settlement, and the Tse Tse fly moving around in a hurry as tree cover expands.
OTL Calhoun. Forgive me for including the quote- I'm an APUSH teacher, and it's one of my favorites when covering our unit on American Imperialism and Racism. Always surprises the students because of how counter-intuitive the sentiment seems.
Thank you!
To respond to your point; (a) It was Britain who secured its presence in Madagascar, and (b) Radama I is still alive thanks to butterflies, so instead of having the fire-eating Queen Ranavalona, Madagascar has a pro-European drunk whose military campaigning days are long behind him. After an alliance of his enemies and a rebellion within newly conquered territory threatened to unseat him, he invited the British in to help and ceded the territories of his enemies to London after the war.
Well he's definitely going to inspire people to do more experimentation on the natives. What he isn't going to do is inspire people with his "scientific" theories which were bullshit.
Quite so. At some point you have to have actual science as the foundation for your experiments and real experimental protocols. It's telling that most of the data from the Axis human experimentation (Mengele/Unit731) is worthless because of the lack of one or the other of these things.
German Syria is a prestige colony intended as a symbol of both Germany's victory (they lost a lot of soldiers trying to break into France, they need something at the peace deal) and of growing German unification. There is currently a Combined German Army and a Combined German Navy providing joint command structures for the armed forces of the different member states- fear of France and the stresses of war have strengthened the institutions of the German Confederation considerably. They'll be creating another such institution to govern the colony, with the Confederation's members contributing funds to pay for its and a joint body created by the Confederate Diet to control it. Resources aren't important and as long as Germany's at peace with the other European powers it should be able to control it.
Keep in mind that ITTL pretty much every member of the GC was either (a) Protected from France by Prussia, (b) Liberated from France by Prussia, or (c) is actually Prussia. The internal conflicts that hurt OTL's GC don't exist and the continued French occupation of ethnic German territory across the Rhine, plus the ongoing threat of French invasion (France and the Germanies have fought three major wars in the 18th century and it's not even 1860 yet), plus the weakened nature of the old order in areas that were occupied by France have resulted in a much stronger German Confederation that is basically controlled by Prussia and considerably more powerful German Nationalism.
Well done! Get that man an internet.
A fair bit of this too.
The Third Rome is pretty high and might rn.
We'll get to them. Japan is still isolationist and it's still the 1850s for China. The Qing are decaying but they haven't started exploding yet. Give them time.
Just as soon as Russia can distract itself from Europe.
You're a genius. The only problem is that the Teutonic Order is (a) still around, and (b) Catholic. But we should be able to do something with their symbolism and basic concept...
Thanks!
Add in Russia with its "Third Rome" thing, and the Ottomans still claiming to be the Sultanate of Rum. It's kind of amazing how much staying power Rome has, isn't it?
Hard to say, since this version of the Holy Land includes Lebanon with its Christian community and the Druze areas of OTL southern Syria. But there were 7,000 Jews, 22,000 Christians and 246,000 Muslims in 1800 in the area of OTL Israel and Palestine.
It is really ugly, isn't it?
They have some good sea connections between coastal cities, particularly with help from the Royal Navy when military stuff is needed. They've also been working hard on infrastructure. Like OTL European colonies in Africa though, there will always be territory that is only nominally controlled by the official owner.
I should work out the Drakian population at some point, shouldn't I?
Thank you.
Russia claims but does not control it.
Italy would have loved to get Albania, but they were on the wrong the side of the war and the victors wanted to minimize the gains of the other side- particularly given that Italy had doubled in size already. As for Hejaz, it contains the Muslim Holy cities of Mecca and Medina and no one wanted to touch that hornet's nest.
Ach, I forgot to mention India. There was supposed to be a major rebellion in India towards the end of the war, we'll deal with it in the next chapter.
I appreciate the compliments, they're the reason I do this after all!
Good point, I'll edit the map to incorporate your suggestion.
Do you know of any good sources for info on this? I've been considering it as a future thing but can't find much.
*eagle screech*
Ouch, poor, poor Mexico. With casualties that bad there's a chance they could be sucked up by the US; they'd only be ~1/5th of the population, but even in this relatively more tolerant alt-US it'd be hard for the Anglos or Mexicans to be happy with any arrangement. Perhaps some sort of Puerto-Rico situation will develop for a while. Looking at the US map, what happened to Michigan? Did the Toledo war go way far in Ohio's favor?
The border between Ohio and Indiana is actually an OTL territorial border, that I kept around. I've been trying to minimize the number of states with an eye towards the 62-state-USA of Stirling's Drakaverse, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Prussia wasn't in real trouble at an point- Austria was coming apart, France didn't launch any real offensives across the Rhine, and Bavaria was Bavaria. They mostly just beat their fists bloody trying to invade France and won some victories against the Austrians and Bavarians that were undone in the peace. It was mostly Britain helping them out.
Thanks! Yeah, maybe “repurposed” would have been a better word than “revived” here, but my thought was that if Germans wanted to run a modern Crusader state, the Teutonic trappings might grant the project some legitimacy.
Huh!?!
By all means include a Calhoun quote....maybe I was not reading it properly, but it seemed an odd quote for Calhoun for me.
It is an uncomfortable fact that racism has been used as a justification for anti-imperialism almost as often as it has for imperialism. Calhoun, as a white supremacist, did not want large numbers of people of color being made citizens of the United States.
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Of course when Radama does peace out as he would very soon from then that leaves an appropriate vessel for the Andriana nobility's anti-European and pro-conservative interests to step forward. If not Ranavalona's sheer.. herness, then something approximating her polices would come into play. Even someone like Rakotobe would not necessarily be free of this political calculus and would chafe at being solely a British client once in power. A Madagascar Arminius would be just as much a threat as the "Female Caligula"
It was proposed IOTL by a German architect, Herman Sörgel, as part of his proposed Atlantropa project. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa)
"The project proposed four additional major dams as well:
On the Congo River below its Kwah River tributary to refill the Mega-Chad basin around Lake Chad providing fresh water to irrigate the Sahara and creating a shipping lane to the interior of Africa"
There's a really good cover of this concept by @Reagent: https://www.deviantart.com/reagentah/art/Mittelafrikanische-Autobahnkarte-701129227
Here's an article that mostly focuses on the Mediterranean part of the Atlantropa proposal but also mentions the Congo plans: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/287-dam-you-mediterranean-the-atlantropa-project
Googling "Atlantropa Congo" brings up several things like that.
Makes sense, for Italy not getting Albania. Still, I suspect the Italians will conquer it later, and Great Powers would tolerate it.
Frankly, Albania is an easy colony for Italy, but has a limited value to anyone else (both in strategical and economical sense). So, nobody would make a big fuss over that. Even the Ottomans themselves might not mind too much, as Albania was always trouble and is now out of reach anyway.
Hey, the Ottomans might sell Albania to Italy. It would be a good deal for them.
Also, with Austria destroyed as a great power, Russia has unchecked domination over the Balkans, and access to the Med. Plus control of Eastern Anatolia and Iraq. And soon, likely, Central Asian khanates (they were quite easy to subjugate).
So, Britain has to feel very twitchy about Russian expansion. Then, there's Germany, that is sandwiched between Britain (and Hannover), and Russia in Europe. And whose Syrian colony is ironically also sandwiched between the Russians and Brits.
So, Germany has the potential to be a rival/enemy of either Russia or Britain. But might also want to maintain the alliance with both, to counter the French threat (and occupation of German territory).
I predict a realignment :
Britain-Germany-Austria (and possibly Sweden)
VS
France-Russia-Italy-USA
Frankly, Albania is an easy colony for Italy, but has a limited value to anyone else (both in strategical and economical sense). So, nobody would make a big fuss over that. Even the Ottomans themselves might not mind too much, as Albania was always trouble and is now out of reach anyway.
Hey, the Ottomans might sell Albania to Italy. It would be a good deal for them.
Also, with Austria destroyed as a great power, Russia has unchecked domination over the Balkans, and access to the Med. Plus control of Eastern Anatolia and Iraq. And soon, likely, Central Asian khanates (they were quite easy to subjugate).
So, Britain has to feel very twitchy about Russian expansion. Then, there's Germany, that is sandwiched between Britain (and Hannover), and Russia in Europe. And whose Syrian colony is ironically also sandwiched between the Russians and Brits.
So, Germany has the potential to be a rival/enemy of either Russia or Britain. But might also want to maintain the alliance with both, to counter the French threat (and occupation of German territory).
I predict a realignment :
Britain-Germany-Austria (and possibly Sweden)
VS
France-Russia-Italy-USA
Is the arrangement in Hannover really sustainable in the long run? If the people there weren't clamoring to join Germany before, they probably would be by this point, and I understand Parliament was unenthused about Britain sticking its neck out for the territory at least by the mid-18th century. Sending British troops to put down potential uprisings won't make anyone happy. Also, the Holy Roman Empire has been gone a long time now, so the title of Elector will only seem sillier with each passing year. Nobody besides Ernest Augustus would still want things as they are, unless I've missed something.