How much do the Drakensie have in common with OTL Nietzsche's concept of an Overman?

To my knowledge Nietzsche's Overman is essentially a Blue and Orange Morality philosopher-king, and had little to do with genetics.
You're right, I was mainly just trying to be dramatic. :biggrin:

But I do believe that despite their emphasis on genetics, the Drakians end goal is create a race of supermen that are beyond humanity, and thus beyond human morality. Which is at least somewhat Nietzchian in language, if not a very deep look at his work.
 
I realls can't wait to see how the Drakian's respond when their "superior beings" decide that they're Superior and thus should be in power.

Surely they will all step down so that the true superior humans can rule.
 
Yeah I can already see this becoming Drakia's lost generation, they've almost entirely obliterated their own cultural institutional knowledge and this violent severing of the prior Drakian legacy is absolutely going to bit them in the ass. Like these not!Hitler Youth are all supposed to be the great forward leap of Drakian life and are heavily entangled with the big first families and political classes of the Empire, but a huge disproportionate number of them are going to be completely nonviable candidates for any career path that isn't soldier, slave driver, or secret police. All this investment and all this human capital might as well not exist at all because absolutely under no circumstances can many if not most of these poor fucked-up bastards be left to Joffrey Baratheon the shit out of the Princely State royalties or the District auxiliary commanders and trash the structures holding the Nationals inside the Drakian system. I mean just judged by the closest thing to predecessors they have historically in the Spartans, then no amount of military sophistication or savagery will help them when the radically Laconophile tyrants emplaced by their Aoge-brutalized Homoioi in direct contravention of the previous Athenian social order last all of eight fucking months before making Athens the greatest democratic enemy Sparta will ever see. (well, until the Achaean League also forms and beats the shit out of them too)
 
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Given Drakia’s Roman themes, I can imagine that the Drakenses might follow in the footsteps of the Praetorian Guard, having the Polemarch assassinated and replacing him with a puppet.
 
Yeah I can already see this becoming Drakia's lost generation, they've almost entirely obliterated their own cultural institutional knowledge and this violent severing of the prior Drakian legacy is absolutely going to bit them in the ass. Like these not!Hitler Youth are all supposed to be the great forward leap of Drakian life and are heavily entangled with the big first families and political classes of the Empire, but a huge disproportionate number of them are going to be completely nonviable candidates for any career path that isn't soldier, slave driver, or secret police. All this investment and all this human capital might as well not exist at all because absolutely under no circumstances can many of these poor fucked-up bastards be left to Joffrey Baratheon the shit out of the Princely State royalties or the District auxiliary commanders and trash the structures holding the Nationals in the Drakian system. I mean just judged by the closest thing to predecessors they have historically in the Spartans, then no amount of military sophistication will help them when the radically Laconophile tyrants emplaced by their Aoge-brutalized Homoioi in direct contravention of the previous Athenian social order last all of eight fucking months before making Athens the greatest democratic enemy Sparta will ever see. (well, until the Achaean League also forms and beats the shit out of them too)

Drakia just committed cultural and political suicide, because all that capital invested in the project is completely wasted!
The cannon attitude of enslave everyone who isn't a Drakian is going to be born from this only instead of winning because of Villain Sue ball they are going to implode spectacularly.
It will be a fun watch.
 
Drakia just committed cultural and political suicide, because all that capital invested in the project is completely wasted!
The cannon attitude of enslave everyone who isn't a Drakian is going to be born from this only instead of winning because of Villain Sue ball they are going to implode spectacularly.
It will be a fun watch.
Given the fact that it's mentioned an attempt to create a perfect servant race never really gets off the ground it would be amusing if Homo Servus TTL is just what the Drakensis call everyone else. Cue dawning horror in the preexisting political elite when they realize their master race project views them as Inferiors.
 
Just read the update. Horrifying in a nice way.

This chapter gives a serious look at the logistical difficulties a dedicated eugenics program would face in real life, and how the already-flawed idea is ruined even further by the inherently flawed authoritarian ideals of Drakia.

the Human Instrumentality Project- the Dragon’s great attempt to take the reigns of evolution once and for all, and create the Master Race through artificial selection.
I don't know which is worse: Gendo, or Stoker?
Artificial insemination was not a new technology- it dated back to the 19th century if not the 18th- and the Dragon’s Nest had been using it to impregnate politically disloyal but genetically Superior (white) women from Drakian Europe with semen from disabled Drakian military veterans.
This is basically institutionalized rape, and I'm not even surprised Draka is that depraved.

A new innovation changed things however; in vitro fertilization. Pioneered by Scandinavia, IVF had been quickly adopted in the demographically devastated countries of Central Europe, and barely a decade after the birth of the first successful IVF baby in Oslo, the Bureau for Technical Progress felt that it had sufficiently mastered the technique for Drakia to put it into wider use. IVF meant that it was possible to combine the Superior genes of two individuals and then leave an imperfectly Superior or even Inferior woman to go through the trouble of actually being pregnant as a surrogate mother. The Empire could therefore breed large numbers of Superior persons without either unduly discommoding loyal Drakian women who didn’t want to be continuously pregnant, or including less than perfect genes from unwilling anti-social women.
Oh my. Oh dear. OH NO!
As envisioned by the planners at the BTP, the Human Instrumentality Project was to carefully select five hundred Drakian men of “the most eugenically Superior genes” as sperm donors and two thousand similarly Superior Drakian women as egg donors. Fifty-thousand Bondswomen would be designated as surrogate mothers (Imperial documents literally referred to them as “incubators”) and impregnated using IVF with the goal of producing one hundred thousand children over two years who would be raised first in Dragon’s Nest creches, and then through the Agoge.
Oh god oh fuck they're doing it!


Seriously though, These two (parts of) paragraphs are very good. The first one is merely a technical description of IFV, albeit increasingly colored by Drakia's twisted notions. It tells the reader what IFV is capable of, and reminding you of Draka's twisted ideals it invites you imagine what depravities they might get up to. And as you're wondering if they'ed really do it, the next paragraph makes it very explicit: Breeding slaves.

Bravo.

Naturally such persons (including Ulysses Kobold himself, and Virgil Stoker) must be eugenically Superior or else they would occupy the offices they did,
Shouldn't this be "or else they would NOT occupy the offices"?
Naturally the Human Instrumentality Project solved this problem by falsely reporting a much lower rate of congenital anomalies and secretly disposing of most of the embarrassments, leaving behind just over forty-five thousand new Drakensis for the state to raise.
Well well well. My guess:

At some point a person who's cogenital sickness has been covered up is going to ascend to a position of high power in Drakia, and really mess things up while people continue to deny that a project of their eugenics program could ever have problems.
The first ever of the much-bragged-about Drakensis to defect to the Alliance for Democracy described the hellish conditions of his upbringing.
Glad to see that after America's alliance falls apart, a new one will rise to pick up the torch!
and in the United States technological innovation drove other grand new projects totally alien to Drakian sensibilities.
Iooking forwards to seeing the way America and its actually decently functioning scientific establishment will utterly FLEX on the snek bois.
Human Instrumentality Project? And a set-up that is basically an inverse Darling and the Franxx?
I know about evangelion, but not much about Darling so I don't see the parallell.
Why I do suspect that the the limnic eruption problem is not going to self-correct anywhere as quickly as the Drakian scientists (still on Stoker's paybook?) thought?
While I too doubt they'll be over so quickly, I don't really see how they could cause more damage than they already are.
 

Irvine

Banned
Most of the adult Drakensis (those who survived to adulthood) would prove to be fanatically loyal, well-educated, physically fit, arrogant, domineering, violent, emotionally stunted, and alienated from the rest of humanity that they had been told was a lesser species.
So Draka WILL, in fact, survive, maybe even conquer the whole world...
 
I think the Drakensis are going to cause revolts much larger and widespread than ever before (with a likelyhood that even Citizens will rebel). This in conjunction with a war with the other powers are going to be a cause for collapse.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
So Draka WILL, in fact, survive, maybe even conquer the whole world...
If they're born in 1960-1961, this only means that Drakia will still exist (in some form) c. 1980. It doesn't imply anything about world conquest, surely. After all, this could also mean that they're the last lunatics clinging to a North Korea-esque rump state, armed with WMDs (which are the only reason they haven't been finished off yet). Even if that's not the case, the fact that Drakia is still around c. 1980 is no more proof of their imminent world-conquest than the fact that the USSR's existence in 1980 was proof of their imminent world conquest...
 

Irvine

Banned
If they're born in 1960-1961, this only means that Drakia will still exist (in some form) c. 1980. It doesn't imply anything about world conquest, surely. After all, this could also mean that they're the last lunatics clinging to a North Korea-esque rump state, armed with WMDs (which are the only reason they haven't been finished off yet). Even if that's not the case, the fact that Drakia is still around c. 1980 is no more proof of their imminent world-conquest than the fact that the USSR's existence in 1980 was proof of their imminent world conquest...
The author said one line latter that he was referring to "far in to the future". This could hardly be the 80s.
 
The reason for the unusually high number of deformities had a little to do with IVF, but more to do with the fact that in many cases the genetic donors who contributed the eggs and sperm had been picked less because they actually had perfect genes than because they were or were related to powerful figures in the Drakian government.
The Drakensis were taught from an early age that they were Superiors destined to rule and dominate all Inferiors, and that failure and weakness were the mark of the Inferior. They were constantly set against each other in competitions- to be the fastest, the smartest, the strongest, the best. Children who lagged behind their peers were publicly shamed- for coming in last in a foot race or getting the lowest grade on a test- by making them stand naked before the rest of their cohort who were encouraged to heap them with insults, humiliations, and verbal abuse. Corporal punishments for those who stepped out of line were severe. Raised to believe that ability alone made you worthy, and that the weak deserved to be degraded and exploited, the stronger children subjected the Bonded servants assigned to their creches to cruel mistreatment, soon extending that treatment to the physically weaker Drakensis. The adults responsible for them tolerated the bullying on grounds that it would cause its victims to “toughen up” and inspire them to defend themselves. It was physical and sexual abuse at the hands of other members of the Master Race that had finally pushed Achlys to escape, escaping after the suicide of another member of his cohort who faced similar treatment.
Most of the adult Drakensis (those who survived to adulthood) would prove to be fanatically loyal, well-educated, physically fit, arrogant, domineering, violent, emotionally stunted, and alienated from the rest of humanity that they had been told was a lesser species.
And so the Draka's ambitions are quietly undone by their own conceits.

the United States technological innovation drove other grand new projects totally alien to Drakian sensibilities.
Internet?

The Drakia would never--not in a million years--give its noncitizens or even nongovernment Whites access to free information. If they did, they wouldn't survive it: either they'd change beyond recognition or they'd fall apart at the seams.

So Draka WILL, in fact, survive, maybe even conquer the whole world...
The Drakensis survive. He's said nothing about the Draka.
 
Is it weird that I'm picturing that they're going to be three different "gens" of Drakensis before it finally ends? As technology improves so does the Drakian's methods with them actually using genetic engineering on the second "gen" of drakensis in the mid seventies. With their being various "bugs" popping up despite early experiments on the bondsman population. Steadily improving and refining their methods with each batch until finally they do make an actual batch of pseudo superhumans (doesn't stop them from being just as screwed up emotionally and psychologically as they're predecessors). Of course not long after their born the whole thing falls apart...

A horrific multi generational project spanning decades that gets worse as the process is refined each time a new batch of human beings are born.

Also do you guys think that the doctors will screw around with the official reports claiming they used the genes of the old aristocracy, when in reality they used the actual best they could find or more often normal citizens to prevent inbreeding?
 
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Also do you guys think that the doctors will screw around with the official reports claiming they used the genes of the old aristocracy, when in reality they used the actual best they could find or more often normal citizens to prevent inbreeding?
If the aristocracy begins complaining about the birth defects, and the political reliability of the doctors comes into question, I could see them doing this to try and save their skins. Otherwise, I don't think they'd dare risk it; I imagine the birth defects are written off as side effects of the IVF process.

Wonder if they'll start using Drakensis samples for the next generations? Or will they continue using citizenry DNA to introduce variety? We shall see.
 
I could see them doing this to try and save their skins. Otherwise, I don't think they'd dare risk it; I imagine the birth defects are written off as side effects of the IVF process.
Come on, they're doctors who must have known better. It's not as if it couldn't really be done discreetly.

Nah, that's a fair point, I just want to influence the author into making a setting for a seinen manga. :p

While I am vouching for an ideologically-inclined mad doctor genuinely working towards the goals of the program and not merely it's "success", it is currently more likely that those Superiors would inbreed themselves into horror stories since the're already numbering in the thousands, further encouraging this exclusive "superior race" mindset. Also, declaring them as the "Superiors" would only mean that gathering the genes from them IS a must, even if you'll add more "citizen genetics" to diversify them. Doing otherwise would be the same as deeming the first generation among the government as a failure.
 
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