Well, they've gotta judiciously study the mechanics behind rocketry, however, regressing the supposed progress by at least some years behind OTL?
Chemical rockets are the only way into space we've really developed OTL, but there are other routes. The aforementioned space guns, for instance.

Personally I want to believe ITTL would figure out nuclear thermal rockets/ramjets before orbit-capable chemical rockets. Somewhat because they're mechanically simpler--you only need one turbopump, for starters--mostly because nuke-le-er spaceplaaaaanes.

Would the US put more effort in the moon bases than OTL?
I was about to say it'd depend on the choice of drives available, but screw that. Water would be more valuable than crude oil up there however you got to it. You need it for everything.

Heck, just not having to ship up all your propellant the hard way opens up the solar system...for chemical rockets.

To say nothing of aluminum and other raw materials. You'd still be building spacecraft from kits you ship up for a long time, but not having to ship up all your structural and armor mass...and not having to design and build your spacecrafts around getting launched from the ground...

Infrastructure. Helluva drug.

(Incidentally, may I suggest the Deismos Water Company for a private venture ITTL? http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/the_deimos_water_company.shtml)
 
Chemical rockets are the only way into space we've really developed OTL, but there are other routes. The aforementioned space guns, for instance.

Personally I want to believe ITTL would figure out nuclear thermal rockets/ramjets before orbit-capable chemical rockets. Somewhat because they're mechanically simpler--you only need one turbopump, for starters--mostly because nuke-le-er spaceplaaaaanes.
A space gun would just destroy the projectile's inside into near uselessness. Rocketry would at least enable the spacecraft to maneuver.

Also, nuclear thermal rockets? That's basically a joke considering theoretical physics is a field that this timeline had basically neglected.

The only way to hasten up the development of spacecraft is for the public and government to not pussy out on the expenditures needed, excusing the continuation of a sorry excuse of a spacecraft as the Space Shuttle. Just go move on immediately after it proved to be a failure. Considering the largely same circumstances of the United States' military-industrial complex, I doubt it would. With similar complexes everywhere, however, the space race would sure have more participants, with New York and Tokyo being the most advanced in the field. (Haha, I'm literally tempting fate and shitting on the certainly sloppy Drakian space program just to throw them a bone, haha.) Well, it's the merit of their gigantic industries compared to even the newcomer India, of which I suppose to be a rather distant third, even with the independence of the Confederation of East Asia.

That said, the cultural implications would be interesting. The remnants of a world order long gone pushing for space vs. its treacherous old friend? I'm sure that Space Battleship Yamato would be reviled as a villain in an American animation, alongside the pathetic totally not-Drakian Zergs. However, if there's any chance that the titular space ship was conceptualized and published first in the Confederation of East Asia (or heaven forbid, the Japanese Empire itself), we can kiss the genre's or even Anime's global popularity goodbye.
 
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Well, they've gotta judiciously study the mechanics behind rocketry, however, regressing the supposed progress by at least some years behind OTL?

A spacecraft with less complicated interface is sure interesting, though. Could it be skipped to a digital interface already?
That's a good point, IOTL there were various ventures like the V1 rockets which simply haven't been explored here. Maybe weapons researchers would latch onto the technology as a side-effect of arms races? Or, if we want to delve into more extreme forms of speculation, maybe manned spaceflight just isn't something that gets done at all in the Separateverse and is little more than a sci-fi hypothetical--sure, it's not really as interesting, but if the progress of technology isn't totally linear or deterministic, I could see it remaining a tough nut to crack for decades into the future if rocketry development isn't spurred somehow.
Personally I want to believe ITTL would figure out nuclear thermal rockets/ramjets before orbit-capable chemical rockets. Somewhat because they're mechanically simpler--you only need one turbopump, for starters--mostly because nuke-le-er spaceplaaaaanes.
They haven't figured out nukes either at this point, so it's back to the same issue of putting more effort and scrutiny into researching underdeveloped fields.
With similar complexes everywhere, however, the space race would sure have more participants, with New York and Tokyo being the most advanced in the field. (Haha, I'm literally tempting fate and shitting on the certainly sloppy Drakian space program just to throw them a bone, haha.) Well, it's the merit of their gigantic industries compared to even the newcomer India, of which I suppose to be a rather distant third, even with the independence of the Confederation of East Asia.
Hasn't Japan been pretty screwed by their civil war and the loss of their empire though? The impression I got was that their infrastructure and societal institutions have been severely damaged, so pouring resources into a space race which would be criticized as a boondoggle at the best of times isn't at the top of their priorities. However, I can see it happening in decades to come, and I could have overestimated the degree of damage so it might be less of an issue.

Also, I wouldn't discount India so easily, they've had a pretty good run so far with an earlier independence won at the negotiation table, no Hindu/Muslim partition or the ensuing violent tensions, and a stronger economy. Add to that their ambitions to lead their own alliance and the fact that they helped fight the U.S. to a standstill without sustaining significant damage on their own soil, and I think they're close to being able to go toe to toe with major powers. (Not that it'd be easy, of course, but that's what makes timelines like this so much fun!)
 
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Actually for building space bases on Moon and Mars, it would be most rational and practical to create robots and 3D-printing fleet of robots over there, and slowly they colonize the planets with self-replication and fully-automatic manufacturing. But well, it's all dependent on how the world views Spaces as the final frontier or to be overlooked for the time being.
 
Hasn't Japan been pretty screwed by their civil war and the loss of their empire though? The impression I got was that their infrastructure and societal institutions have been severely damaged, so pouring resources into a space race which would be criticized as a boondoggle at the best of times isn't at the top of their priorities. However, I can see it happening in decades to come, and I could have overestimated the degree of damage so it might be less of an issue.

Also, I wouldn't discount India so easily, they've had a pretty good run so far with an earlier independence won at the negotiation table, no Hindu/Muslim partition or the ensuing violent tensions, and a stronger economy. Add to that their ambitions to lead their own alliance and the fact that they helped fight the U.S. to a standstill without sustaining significant damage on their own soil, and I think they're close to being able to go toe to toe with major powers. (Not that it'd be easy, of course, but that's what makes timelines like this so much fun!)
They should still have plenty in Tokyo and Taiwan, and recovery efforts won't get in the way of their irredentist compensation. Just look how OTL Soviet Union did with its own space program. Guess if EBR would put Japan's quality of life up to the dice, this could be one of the projects where the Empire would bust its money like how the Soviets did with its military.

I could totally see your point however. So, that makes India the second fiddle and the Confederation having more potential than Japan for its own space program, thus being the distant third in this race?

maybe manned spaceflight just isn't something that gets done at all in the Separateverse and is little more than a sci-fi hypothetical--sure, it's not really as interesting, but if the progress of technology isn't totally linear or deterministic, I could see it remaining a tough nut to crack for decades into the future if rocketry development isn't spurred somehow.
Nah, it is one of the prime milestones of space races perhaps on absolutely every occasion, and engineering solutions would eventually be formulated to make it feasible, and with the crowded and competitive field that this timeline may have seen, it is all but certain that one would do regardless of much academic and engineering furor it may have made.

With all that was said, I just wanted to see San Franciscan rioters foaming in the mouth while overseeing the burning of the CD copies of Spacebattleship Yamato over the hysteria of "Jap(anese) Super-Robots."

Aside from those, I trust that theoretical physics could catch up pretty quickly with the need to verify being solved as fast with this timeline's more advanced engineering, especially after TTL's Manhattan Project really starts to get rolling.
 
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As far as spaceflight is concerned, much earlier in the thread I suggested that a space race revolving around space planes would be cool, given how rapidly drachenfliegers evolved into jets TTL. A sleek jet hurtling through the air until it uses retrorockets to delicately park in space would be super neat.
 
A space gun would just destroy the projectile's inside into near uselessness. Rocketry would at least enable the spacecraft to maneuver.
Hardly. We've had working electronics in shells since WW2, and TTL is ahead in both gunnery and electronics.

It puts a hard limit on the kinds of payloads you can send up, but it's hardly a showstopper.

Heck, hold on. What's the state of linear motors ITTL?
That's a good point, IOTL there were various ventures like the V1 rockets which simply haven't been explored here. Maybe weapons researchers would latch onto the technology as a side-effect of arms races? Or, if we want to delve into more extreme forms of speculation, maybe manned spaceflight just isn't something that gets done at all in the Separateverse and is little more than a sci-fi hypothetical--sure, it's not really as interesting, but if the progress of technology isn't totally linear or deterministic, I could see it remaining a tough nut to crack for decades into the future if rocketry development isn't spurred somehow.
Unless the Protracted Struggle ends in a nuclear holocaust as soon as nukes are figured out, I don't see the space race not happening. And even if less is spent on it percentage-wise, the tendency towards greater government investment in RnD will pay dividends over OTL.
They haven't figured out nukes either at this point, so it's back to the same issue of putting more effort and scrutiny into researching underdeveloped fields.
Point.
Actually for building space bases on Moon and Mars, it would be most rational and practical to create robots and 3D-printing fleet of robots over there, and slowly they colonize the planets with self-replication and fully-automatic manufacturing.
Setting aside the small issue of designing such a thing...you've just converted the Moon into a vast autoindustrial nightmare without any oversight to speak of. You don't see how this might be a problem?
But well, it's all dependent on how the world views Spaces as the final frontier or to be overlooked for the time being.
Probably overlooked for the next decade or two, much like OTL.

Once the Protracted Struggle gets started in earnest, though, no way space gets ignored. At the very least the potential to weaponize it would get thoroughly explored.
 

xsampa

Banned
Actually for building space bases on Moon and Mars, it would be most rational and practical to create robots and 3D-printing fleet of robots over there, and slowly they colonize the planets with self-replication and fully-automatic manufacturing. But well, it's all dependent on how the world views Spaces as the final frontier or to be overlooked for the time being.
What about a Lunar Republic?
 
Must. Resist urge to. Post. Pictures of. Princess Luna.
That wouldn't be a republic anywho, that would be a theocracy of the most literal variety possible. (deucracy? divucracy? ceolecracy?...lunacracy?)

More likely we'll be seeing some sort of government backed Lunar mining and colonization Corporation. For helium three and other precious resources to take back to Earth.
Putting aside the difficulties inherent in extracting usable amounts of He3 from soils where it is only present in amounts measurable in parts per billion, the stuff is made by decaying tritium, and that can be bred from lithium at any nuclear reactor. I don't see it ever being profitably exported from the Moon in either timeline(IET?)

I'd expect to see lunar industry supporting a wider space infrastructure that eventually exports power(beamed power satellites, aka orbital deathrays w/ civilian applications), valuable materials(platinum group metals from asteroid mining) and specialty goods(microgravity manufacture products) back down to Earth.
 
Setting aside the small issue of designing such a thing...you've just converted the Moon into a vast autoindustrial nightmare without any oversight to speak of. You don't see how this might be a problem?
Thing is for now ITTL, AI are not that advanced to rebel against human. Also I only proposed to make a small-scale base. Transforming the moon into a vast autoindustrial is not very feasible within a few decades. Albeit, if the Moon is heavily militarized with automatic weapons, that would be a huge issue if some of the programmed chain commands are buggy.
 
Cue patriotic music...

"Do you want to be the best man you can be?"
Cut to some classic all American men in NASA-esque uniforms walking down an isle

"Want to expand your horizons?"

Cut to an astronaut climbing a cliff on Mars
"Then join Starforce!!!"

Enter a rocketship where we see some crew members doing technical things on the bridge

"Serving your country and journey across the stars themselves."

Cue some astronauts with an American flag and a moon base in the background.

"Space force bringing America into the next frontier."

(Note: the whole thing looks like it was recorded on a 80's camera and playing on an old vhs tape...)
 
Thing is for now ITTL, AI are not that advanced to rebel against human.
You don't need advanced AI to have a whole heap of problems with clanking replicators. Problems that scale exponentially over time as a matter of course.

Especially in the presence of nation-state scale hostile actors willing to be clever in exacerbating those problems.
 
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Cue patriotic music...

"Do you want to be the best man you can be?"
Cut to some classic all American men in NASA-esque uniforms walking down an isle

"Want to expand your horizons?"

Cut to an astronaut climbing a cliff on Mars
"Then join Starforce!!!"

Enter a rocketship where we see some crew members doing technical things on the bridge

"Serving your country and journey across the stars themselves."

Cue some astronauts with an American flag and a moon base in the background.

"Space force bringing America into the next frontier."

(Note: the whole thing looks like it was recorded on a 80's camera and playing on an old vhs tape...)
Cue a giant robot assembling together, and an auto-cannon starts to aim at it

"Space force protecting America's heavens"
 
Cue a giant robot assembling together, and an auto-cannon starts to aim at it

"Space force protecting America's heavens"
Considering that vacuum channel transistors [1] were successfully introduced in this timeline it probably wouldn't be to far of stretch for electronics to generally be more bulky here. Afterall the Soviets continued to vacuum tubes in their fighter jets all the way up to the 80, for pretty good reasons. I'm just picturing the world looking very casette futurist and zeerust by the time of America and Drakia's final showdown.

[1] basically miniaturized vacuum tubes that are actually more powerful than modern computer chips.
 
Now, I'm actually interested on how the cartoon and comic culture has developed already in the United States, seeing that TTL's Hollywood (the industry) were centered more on New Jersey and New York, and the influence of Fascism frowning upon foreign cultures. I'm sure that a version of Captain America unrepentantly whacking the shit out of the "Japs" would be a ubiquitous figure in the 40's, and the Situationist avant-garde (artistic) revolution would spice up the art so much in the 50's, but how about the 30's and every years before that?
Are we looking at timeline where we (later) get an American-made equivalent to Kantai Collection with Marvel/DC art instead of anime?
 
Are we looking at timeline where we (later) get an American-made equivalent to Kantai Collection with Marvel/DC art instead of anime?
Betcha the Japanese villains would've pissed their pants off when they realize the United States' naval forces were reunified again into a single command.

I have difficulty visualizing it since the tone of American and Japanese illustrated stories are drastically different from each other.
 
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