separate Castile, Aragon, and Portugal

yofie

Banned
I know that in OTL, the kingdoms of Castile and Aragon (in present-day Spain) merged in the late 15th-early 16th centuries, and that Portugal remained separate (except for a number of decades a bit later on) - as it does today. What if, though, Ferdinand and Isabella had never married and Castile never merged with Portugal either? How would the Iberian Peninsula shape up with three separate kingdoms/countries of Portugal, Castile, and Aragon down to the present day? What effect would that have on the Age of Exploration, the colonization of the New World, the Inquisition and expulsion of Jews and Muslims, and so on? (I didn't mention Navarre here because it's very small and would be easily swallowed up by Castile or something.)
 
Aragon would probably become a Mediterranean power, while Portugal and Castile would be New World powers.
 
Would the expeditions be funded by Castile though?

Although Isabella actively supported the war and the Alhambra Decree, it was chiefly the endeavor of Fernando II, and the Inquisition his brainchild. Before Fernando and Isabella, Granada was a vassal state just paying tribute to Castile, and had been for 250 years.

So it is doubtful that Castile has the wealth to spare, without the plundered riches of Granada.

Luis de Santangel meanwhile, was in the service specifically of Fernando II, and would have therefore worked for Aragon in this scenario. It was he that IOTL kept Columbus in the court of Castile after years of being put off by Fernando and Isabella. Otherwise he was considering efforts to persuade Charles VIII or Henry VII (he had already been turned down in Portugal).

Would this timeline see him leaving Castile in frustration to find support with Santangel in the court of Aragon? Or would the lack of war see him win the approval of Isabella sooner, though on what money?
 
Would the expeditions be funded by Castile though?

Sooner or later they will

Although Isabella actively supported the war and the Alhambra Decree, it was chiefly the endeavor of Fernando II, and the Inquisition his brainchild. Before Fernando and Isabella, Granada was a vassal state just paying tribute to Castile, and had been for 250 years.

Granada was conquered when it was because at that time, the Spanish started to feel that a Muslim Granada near them could ally with the powerful Ottomans and threaten them.

So it is doubtful that Castile has the wealth to spare, without the plundered riches of Granada.

They will get wealth sooner or later. Castile was a rich kingdom.

Luis de Santangel meanwhile, was in the service specifically of Fernando II, and would have therefore worked for Aragon in this scenario. It was he that IOTL kept Columbus in the court of Castile after years of being put off by Fernando and Isabella. Otherwise he was considering efforts to persuade Charles VIII or Henry VII (he had already been turned down in Portugal).

Castille will go colonizing the Americas as soon as someone discovers it, be it Columbus, a Portuguese, a French, an English, a Castillian or someone else. They would be because of their position in Europe.

Would this timeline see him leaving Castile in frustration to find support with Santangel in the court of Aragon? Or would the lack of war see him win the approval of Isabella sooner, though on what money?

I think he would try Isabella anyway, and she might try to finance him anyway. But if she can't, then Colon will try luck in another place
 
Would the expeditions be funded by Castile though?

Although Isabella actively supported the war and the Alhambra Decree, it was chiefly the endeavor of Fernando II, and the Inquisition his brainchild. Before Fernando and Isabella, Granada was a vassal state just paying tribute to Castile, and had been for 250 years.

So it is doubtful that Castile has the wealth to spare, without the plundered riches of Granada.

The expeditions were funded by Castille; Aragon (and Portugal when it was joined) had no part in the Americas;, did they did not pay taxes for then, but they had no comercial or settler rights.

And Granada by 1492 was ruined and had been a Castillian vassal for two centuries. It would have been conquered by any Castillian king than decided to do so.

More relevant for the POD; is Isabella does not marry Ferdiand (and his Aragonese soldiers) she probably loses the civil war against her niece Juana (incidentally, the rightful queen)
 
The expeditions were funded by Castille; Aragon (and Portugal when it was joined) had no part in the Americas;, did they did not pay taxes for then, but they had no comercial or settler rights.

And Granada by 1492 was ruined and had been a Castillian vassal for two centuries. It would have been conquered by any Castillian king than decided to do so.

More relevant for the POD; is Isabella does not marry Ferdiand (and his Aragonese soldiers) she probably loses the civil war against her niece Juana (incidentally, the rightful queen)

Right, but would Isabella have agreed to fund the expeditions without the influence of Santangel? And would she have chosen to go after Granada, without the drive of Fernando II?

There is no doubt that sooner or later somebody would reach the new world, and that Castile would join in the effort, but without the pairing, they could have dithered to the point at which Colon does not sail for them. Portugal, France, or Aragon would lead the way in exploration of the New World.

And with Alexander VI from Aragon who knows if Castile would receive such a favorable position in the Treaty of Tordesillas...


Of course, you raise a very good thought that hadn't even crossed my mind. Without the help of Aragon, there is a very good chance that the War of the Castilian Succession sees Juana la Beltraneja on the throne of Castile and closer ties not to Aragon, but Portugal...
 
The expeditions were funded by Castille; Aragon (and Portugal when it was joined) had no part in the Americas;, did they did not pay taxes for then, but they had no comercial or settler rights.

And Granada by 1492 was ruined and had been a Castillian vassal for two centuries. It would have been conquered by any Castillian king than decided to do so.

More relevant for the POD; is Isabella does not marry Ferdiand (and his Aragonese soldiers) she probably loses the civil war against her niece Juana (incidentally, the rightful queen)

Portugal had their own Portuguese possessions in the Americas; however you're right that these were strictly separated from the Castillian colonies.
 
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The expeditions were funded by Castille; Aragon (and Portugal when it was joined) had no part in the Americas;, did they did not pay taxes for then, but they had no comercial or settler rights.

And Granada by 1492 was ruined and had been a Castillian vassal for two centuries. It would have been conquered by any Castillian king than decided to do so.

More relevant for the POD; is Isabella does not marry Ferdiand (and his Aragonese soldiers) she probably loses the civil war against her niece Juana (incidentally, the rightful queen)

...which IIRC means a Portugal-Castile union, although that might not hold?

There IS a later POD that is Ferdinand's son by his second wife, Genevieve of Foix, lives and then he would be in remainder to the throne of Aragon and we would see Aragon split off from its union with Castile

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Right, but would Isabella have agreed to fund the expeditions without the influence of Santangel? And would she have chosen to go after Granada, without the drive of Fernando II?

I'd give a tentative "yes" to both questions.

For Columbus, it's simply than his calculations on the distance to China were dead wrong... by several thousand kilometers (it was his luck than the Americas were on the way). What's more, most of the Iberian geographers knew they were wrong, and advised so to their monarchs. That's why Portugal -who had more to win, and Columbus was married to a Portuguese woman- said no. It seems than Columbus convinced Isable by force of personal charisma, and that should not change.

For Granada... Isabel was, not to put too fine a point about it, a religious zealot and a bigot. She was the one to expell the jew, after all, knowing exactly what it would do to the spanish economy. I think she would have taken Granada even if she lacked Aragonese troops.
 
...which IIRC means a Portugal-Castile union, although that might not hold?

There IS a later POD that is Ferdinand's son by his second wife, Genevieve of Foix, lives and then he would be in remainder to the throne of Aragon and we would see Aragon split off from its union with Castile

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

This is probably your simplest.

but perhaps also as follow on from the OP.and it makes things interesting...

Isabella is caught enroute to her marriage with Ferdinand. Henry is enraged that she would marry without his consent, she is placed under guard in the palace at Segovia "for her protection" shall we say and bluntly told she will marry who she is told to or she won't marry at all... She is still likely to be a centre of intrigue for the King's opponents but and could raise the standard of rebellion when he dies anyway all on her own...

Ferdinand for his part may wait...or he may not...say the plans thwarted he moves to increase his influence on Navarre instead and wangles a marriage to Marguerite of Navarre.


As a an side to this Rodrigo Borgia is censured by Pope Sixtus ( Under pressure from Henry(Castille), Afonso(Portugal) and Charles (France)) for having presented a papal dispensation purported to have been dispensed by him.

Aragon is already a med. power and will continue to play a role there...

Castille could probably still take Granada even without Aragon, though it may take longer or if Isabella wins over Juana in the succession crisis that will undoubtably occur when Henry dies. If Isabella wins she may be able to use her past relationship with Ferdinand to gain Aragonese assistance in any case for suitable compensation of course elsewhere. Juana for her part may be able to do the same with Portuguese assistance instead of Aragon's.
 

yofie

Banned
Would it be more plausible for Portugal, Castile, and Aragon to all be separate countries down to the present day, or for Castile and Portugal to eventually unify? Of course, if Aragon is separate from Castile today, Catalan would be much more widespread of a language than OTL.
 
Would it be more plausible for Portugal, Castile, and Aragon to all be separate countries down to the present day, or for Castile and Portugal to eventually unify? Of course, if Aragon is separate from Castile today, Catalan would be much more widespread of a language than OTL.

IMO Castille-Portugal or Castille-Aragon or Castille-Portugal-Aragon can all happen, just as they can all stay separate...
 
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