Senatus Populusque Romanus-How Pompey, Cato, and Cicero Saved The Republic

forget

Banned
“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed least Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero - 55BC
 
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“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed least Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

Cisero - 55BC

Hmmm. Interesting. I forgot about budget/money problems. I'm not sure if he would be able to curb foreign assistance much at all though. The tempering and controlling of the arrogance of officialdom I (hope) I got Cicero to do all he could on it, and the last one I'm not too familiar with to say whether it could be done or not.

If you can give me some suggestions with how to go about some of those things mentioned in the quote, it would be much appreciated. :)
 
I edited an addition into the government reforms. Censors will now serve for 5 years instead of 18 months. Cicero mentioned in his ideal republic that a censor would serve for 5 years, instead of the current 18 months. That's what I am going off of for that reform.
 

forget

Banned
Hmmm. Interesting. I forgot about budget/money problems. I'm not sure if he would be able to curb foreign assistance much at all though. The tempering and controlling of the arrogance of officialdom I (hope) I got Cicero to do all he could on it, and the last one I'm not too familiar with to say whether it could be done or not.

If you can give me some suggestions with how to go about some of those things mentioned in the quote, it would be much appreciated. :)

My rough translation of my excerpt of Cicero speech.

The budget should be balanced, by opposing or cutting offensive capabilities of the military, there by reducing debt and refilling the the treasury.

Perhaps it would be easier to balance the budget if there were more tax paying citizens. Increasing the amount of tax paying citizens by making it easier for slaves to become citizens.

Tempering the arrogance of officialdom could be done by reducing the wealth required to become a senator and other law making groups.

In order for people to learn to work again they must be given lands in which to work with. Maybe if cheap settlement land was opened up in the territories land would be available for citizens to work with.

Good luck with the next update.
 
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So while I continue to do research on Rome's financial problems, I had an idea to combat gangs and what have you in Rome itself. I figured implementing Augustus's policy would be a good idea here:

-Create a police force in the city of Rome itself. (Cohortes Urbanae-Urban Cohorts)

• Counteract Roaming mobs and gangs
• Riot control duties (Vigiles had day to day watch)

-Create public firefighting force in Rome (Vigiles)
• Commanded by praefectus vigilum (equestrian)
• Divided into seven cohorts (divided into centuries of 70-80 men commanded by centurions)
• Each cohort patrolled 2 of the cities 14 administrative regions
• Full Citizenship after 6 years of service (used to get recrits)
• Also used as night watch
-4% tax on the sale of slaves (proceeds used to pay for this force)


Thoughts?

edit: Do you guys think a streamlining of the legions down to 30 similar to what Augustus did (except he made it 28) would work here, while still keeping them under the pay of their generals?
 
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Cicero Turns To The City of Rome
According to the law of nature it is only fair that no one should become richer through damages and injuries suffered by another.
-Marcus Tullius Cicero​
Rome had been a staging ground for riots, and all out brawls, often incited by senators themselves, Clodius being one of the more notorious instigators. Cicero's administrative reforms had tried to curb that, but he knew it would more than likely not be enough. So he turned to other methods to keep Rome in good order.

Vigiles
roman_imperial_vigiles.gif

Cicero called for the establishment of a firefighting force in Rome. They would be commanded by a praefectus vigilum, who was to be of either equestrian rank, or a novus homo. These vigiles were to be divided into 7 cohorts, and from there further divided into centuries of 70-80 men commanded by a centurion. Each cohort would be given jurisdiction of patrolling 2 of the 14 administrative regions in Rome. Along with being used as a firefighting force, they were to be used as night watch. To obtain recruits for this less than desirable profession, citizenship was to be granted after 6 years of service (assuming one was not a citizen already).

Cohortes Urbanae​

The Cohortes Urbanae, or Urban Cohort[1], were also created under Cicero. Essentially riot police, this force was used to counteract the roaming mobs and gangs of Rome. They were called on to quell riots and other unrest, while the Vigiles had the day to day watch duties. If needed, they could form for battle, but this was only for emergency situations. A 4% tax on slaves was used to pay for these urban cohorts as well as the vigiles.

With the establishment of what was essentially Rome's first police force, Cicero had made a master stroke in curbing mob and gang violence in Rome. Cicero hoped something that had been a momentousness pain in the Republic's side, constantly threatening its stability, could finally be halted. Only time would tell in that regard.

[1] I utterly detest these guys in RTW
 
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Excerpt From "Pompey-Life of A Collossus" [1]

...Many historians are quick to point to Titus to come to the conclusion Pompey had retired after the civil war. However, upon looking deeper into the aftermath of the civil war, this simply cannot be the case.

Pompey would not simply retire from public life just when he had reached the high watermark of his career. This was a man who was very much used to being the center figure in Rome, and having power. Neither did he have any intention of giving his power up. Was that not the reason the civil war started in the first place? Pompey could not stand seeing someone rise above him in power and glory, or even so much as be his equal. Caesar had laid claim to be more than his equal, to be the greatest general in Rome. Outraged at someone trying to usurp his position as the greatest figure of Rome, Pompey backed Caesar into a corner, forcing him to make a massive gamble. A gamble he lost.

So why then, does Titus suggest Pompey retired? Could it be Pompey masked his intentions so well, that Titus misunderstood what was actually taking place? This is unlikely, considering Pompey's behind the scenes work would have almost certainly been at least suspected, if not well known, in Rome. But what if we simply misinterpreted Titus's meaning?

This is how I see it. Pompey did retire...at least from direct involvement in the senate and its interworkings. However, indirectly, he very much remained a major player in Roman politics. We see this from his messages to the senate through Cato and others, clearly showing his words still held important influence. It would not be far fetched to suggest there was more to it than that-bribing, threats, and right hand men in the senate were more than likely used by Pompey as well. Not to mention his gathering up of veterans and other soldiers to threaten a return to the proscriptions if Rome did not accept Cicero's reforms.

This theory would fit with the evidence we have. It would also explain wat Titus meant by Pompey's retirement...
 
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Arrix85

Donor
Excerpt From Adrian Goldsworthy's "Pompey-Life of A Collossus" [1]
[1] He actually wrote "Caesar: Life of A Collossus" but since Caeasr lost, I turned it into a book about Pompey.

ehm, the butterflies not only have kicked him out of existence, but also England.
 
ehm, the butterflies not only have kicked him out of existence, but also England.

I don't see how the butterflies would kick England out of existence. The Romans would still at some point (if not during the longer lasting republic, than during the empire when it comes around) take at least what they had in OTL. The resources there, as well as protecting Gaul from raids from British tribes, would almost surely compel them to take it eventually.

And I'm not sure if the butterflies are big enough to prevent the Saxons from coming on the scene in Britain (albeit later than IRL)
 

Arrix85

Donor
I don't see how the butterflies would kick England out of existence. The Romans would still at some point (if not during the longer lasting republic, than during the empire when it comes around) take at least what they had in OTL. The resources there, as well as protecting Gaul from raids from British tribes, would almost surely compel them to take it eventually.

And I'm not sure if the butterflies are big enough to prevent the Saxons from coming on the scene in Britain (albeit later than IRL)

Man, if you're convinced that the same tribes will settle the same territories... I think I'm out.:(
 
Sorry for the long time before a new update, its just that I've been doing other things and waffling a lot of ideas for where to go next with this TL around in my head.

Cicero did say he believed the censors should control the treasury, instead of the senate itself. I am tempted to add this, but I do not really know what effect this would have. If anyone who knows more about that can help me out, it would be greatly appreciated. If not, I'll just leave it how it is, and end the reforms of Cicero where they are, and start moving this TL forward.
 
Surviving The Second Crisis

Freedom is a possession of inestimable value.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

Cicero's reforms eased the political and social turmoil in Rome. When he was appointed dictator, Rome was in a state of complete anarchy[1] and confusion. The entire political and social order was turned completely upside down. The Senate was hardly an effective governing body, given that many its prominent members were just returning from their "exile" in Greece. Rome was in turmoil.

The people of Rome found a new hope in Cicero and his reforms. Some had given up on the republic and left it for dead. However, just like in the time of Sulla, Rome perceived, and the republic remained intact,. They had once again been shaken, but Cicero made sure they didn't break. The res publica had survived its second major crisis to its existence. How many more it could survive, would be put to the test.



[1] An overstatement
 
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