Seljuk the Jew

a random thing I was thinking about for something I'm writing, what would happen if while serving in the Khazar army (as he did in OTL), Seljuk (who was pagan IIRC) decides to convert to Judaism?

would he still go on to found the Great Seljuk Empire and rampage around the Middle East, or would that be butterflied away? what do you think the effects would be?

EDIT: his conversion would probably be in the late 10th century, or possibly early 11th. sources (AKA wikipedia) are not very clear on when Seljuk was born or lived.
 

Keenir

Banned
a random thing I was thinking about for something I'm writing, what would happen if while serving in the Khazar army (as he did in OTL), Seljuk (who was pagan IIRC) decides to convert to Judaism?

would he still go on to found the Great Seljuk Empire and rampage around the Middle East, or would that be butterflied away? what do you think the effects would be?

hm. the possibility of a Jewish dynast/dynasty ruling a predominantly Muslim army in Anatolia and Persia -- it has a lot of potential and promise!

one thing I think would definately be affected, is how the Byzantine Empire responds...do they come down harder on their own Jews, or do the Byzantines go easy on their Jews (now that there's the Seljuks as potential saviors of any abused Jewry)
 
hm. the possibility of a Jewish dynast/dynasty ruling a predominantly Muslim army in Anatolia and Persia -- it has a lot of potential and promise!

one thing I think would definately be affected, is how the Byzantine Empire responds...do they come down harder on their own Jews, or do the Byzantines go easy on their Jews (now that there's the Seljuks as potential saviors of any abused Jewry)

were the Seljuk / Oghuz turks Muslim before Seljuk? because if they were pagan, I can see many emulating their ruler and converting to Judaism too. or were you referring to the conquered people?

and that might make the Byzantines be a little less likely to persecute Jews, if the Seljuks adopt a protector-of-the-Jews mentality (like the Khazars did for a while). then again, it didn't stop Romanos I's persecution, so maybe the threat of an uber-Jewish empire would make the Byzzies come down even harder on their Jews.....
 
I don't think that a Jewish Seljuk state could last that long. I mean, Seljuk may actually HAVE converted IOTL, but at this point the Samanid missions have already converted much of the Central Asian turkic population to Islam. so either Seljuk or one of his later successors, especially if they rule over Islamic Persia, will convert to Islam sooner or later.
 
semi-bump, because I think this is an interesting idea and would like some more input in it. pwease?

I don't think that a Jewish Seljuk state could last that long. I mean, Seljuk may actually HAVE converted IOTL, but at this point the Samanid missions have already converted much of the Central Asian turkic population to Islam. so either Seljuk or one of his later successors, especially if they rule over Islamic Persia, will convert to Islam sooner or later.

well, before Seljuk the Kinik-Oghuz branch (of which he was a part) were still largely pagan. it was only AFTER Seljuk led them south in the first migration were they converted by the Samanids. so if the upper class were Jewish, then many of the lower-ranking Tengriists would follow. but there still would be a good deal of Muslims in the government of the Seljuks, so probably the population would be split between the two.
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so do people think that if this happened, could the Seljuks go on to expand like they did roughly as IOTL (but with some minor differences)... or would the aristocracy being Jewish be too much of a butterfly?

EDIT: and a second question, what if the Jewish upper class attempted to reverse the spread of Islam and propagate Judaism among their conquered subjects? the Tengri Seljuks had no tactics of conversion or confronting other religions. but Jewish Seljuks might be more active in converting, IF THEY TRIED it how successful would that be?
 
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