TFSmith121
Banned
How many were sunk trying to get away, however?
How many were sunk trying to get away, however?
The Italian ships carrying troops from Sicily to Tunisia have a somewhat less threatening AOR than the same trying to get from Benghazi past Malta to Calabria, do they not?
And it's not like Benghazi was ever much of a port.
Again, Hitler was not especially well known for his willingness to order fighting retreats, was he? Perhaps I've missed one.
Then there's the issue of the reality the Axis were routinely confused by Allied deception operations from 1942 onwards, as well as the minor issue of the Red Army and Air Force hovering over the Eastern Front.
Rationally, the Germans would have avoided ZITADELLE as it was, even without an Allid threat in the west - but as it was, even with an Allied threat in the south, they went whole hog.
Again, bottom line - a second front at any point after 1942 does nothing positive for the Axis and everything negative for them; its kind of the point.
Either the Germans trade space for time in the east, or they try to hold the Soviets off in the east while mounting a minimal defense in the west; they can't do both, and in either event, VE Day comes early.
Best,
Not one ship IOTL bringing German troops into Tunisia was sunk by the Allies. Not a single one. Force K didn't show up to Malta until November 23rd. The shipping was sufficient to bring in well over 100k reinforcements to Tunisia IOTL in November, they could bring out 100k men easily via ship and airlift from Benghazi and Tripoli. You don't really need a rearguard, because Monty didn't advance quickly after El Alamein and let Rommel continuously retreat quickly than the 8th army could arrive; by the time the PAA got to Benghazi only recon elements could follow; Monty didn't really even get combat elements capable of brushing aside the virtually nonexistent line at El Agheila until mid-December. Rommel and the Axis troops were effectively let go due to Monty not provisioning for a rapid follow up on pushing the Axis out of Egypt and gave Rommel all the time he needed to escape.
Allied troops landing in Bone and advancing on North Tunisia would get there about the time Rommel was in Benghazi IOTL and would take probably 2 weeks at least by land to get to the Tunisian-Libyan border is significant strength. They still cannot draw supply via Tunis and Bizerte due to nearby Axis air and naval bases and the inherent caution of the Wallies. They need to cement their hold on Tunisia first and bring up air units to provide air cover for forward supply, which gives Rommel and his troops all the time they need to get out before Monty or Torch can get to Tripoli.
If the Allies land at Bone and are able to reach Tunis and Bizerte before the Axis there is no way that even Hitler can try and stick out Africa, Mussolini and all his advisers would be on him to get out while the way is open. IOTL the only reason that anyone said they could make a stand in North Africa after Torch was that Axis reinforcements successfully landed at Bizerte and Tunis first and checked the Allied push into Tunisia, meaning the bridgehead was viable; they then reinforced the front line faster than the Allies as the weather worsened and shut down operations for both sides. ITTL the Allies would get there first and shut down Axis attempts to bring in reinforcements, meaning that its clear that all was lost, but then weather would hamper the Allies in Tunisia from rapidly advancing to secure the entire country, while Rommel is bugging out from Benghazi and Tripoli. By the time the Allies lock things down the PAA is out.
See above. The Allies stopped literally none of the Axis ships and aircraft bringing reinforcements into Tunisia IOTL and Malta wasn't reinforced by Force K until November 23rd and didn't really get good at sinking Axis ships until January.
Actually it does because those were the garrison forces that had spent all of 1942 defending France. 10th Panzer was on standby to join the fight at Dieppe, but the Brits pulled out. It was meant to guard against a cross channel invasion and if not committed in the Mediterranean it was going to stay in France. Rommel and his evacuees have Sicily and Sardinia, there is already a garrison in Greece, there needed to be troops in France and 10th Panzer+OTL Tunisian troops including the Hermann Goering Panzer Division will be in France in reserve, while the forces that historically defended Sicily and Italy after Tunisia will either be in the East or in strategic reserve.
If the Allies don't move on Sicily in early 1943 or really anywhere in the Mediterranean within a few months of seizing all of North Africa the Axis are really going to be also worried about what is going on in Britain, especially as IOTL they were well aware of the invasion building in 1944, they just didn't know where it was going to come. So if its clear that there is training and ships building up in Britain in 1943 and no follow up on Torch within a few months, then its very clear that France is a potential target very shortly. Then the historical forces that were in Italy/Sicily IOTL will be available for France ITTL. Also if there is a significant threat of invasion of France Kursk is not going to be launched in July; it will either go in May to preempt whatever is building in Britain or not be launched at all to ensure there are reserves available, especially if there is no major invasion in the Mediterranean prior. IOTL the Germans were aware of the invasion fleet in the Mediterranean in 1943, they just didn't know what target was going to be invaded; they were aware of the invasion fleet in Britain in 1944 and that an invasion was coming, just not where it would be aimed. So ITTL they will know there is an invasion in France coming and will have forces on hand to fight in France that Spring/Summer.
How many were sunk trying to get away, however?
The Italian ships carrying troops from Sicily to Tunisia have a somewhat less threatening AOR than the same trying to get from Benghazi past Malta to Calabria, do they not?
And it's not like Benghazi was ever much of a port.
Again, Hitler was not especially well known for his willingness to order fighting retreats, was he? Perhaps I've missed one.
Then there's the issue of the reality the Axis were routinely confused by Allied deception operations from 1942 onwards, as well as the minor issue of the Red Army and Air Force hovering over the Eastern Front.
Rationally, the Germans would have avoided ZITADELLE as it was, even without an Allid threat in the west - but as it was, even with an Allied threat in the south, they went whole hog.
Again, bottom line - a second front at any point after 1942 does nothing positive for the Axis and everything negative for them; its kind of the point.
Either the Germans trade space for time in the east, or they try to hold the Soviets off in the east while mounting a minimal defense in the west; they can't do both, and in either event, VE Day comes early.
Best,