Second Byzantine/Palaiologan Renaissance

I was wondering what reference materials, or thoughts people had on the Palaiologan Renaissance? Assuming some measure of survival of the Roman Empire (Say a resurgence Constantinople, or a vassal state in the Morea) what are peoples thoughts on the extent and impact of that Renaissance compared to OTL Renaissance.
 
Well, you'd have to screw the Ottomans somehow,maybe a crusade. How that happens (and when) matters a bit.

In all likelihood Italy will have major influence (a d vice versa) through the republic's and or Naples.
 
Well, you'd have to screw the Ottomans somehow,maybe a crusade. How that happens (and when) matters a bit.

In all likelihood Italy will have major influence (a d vice versa) through the republic's and or Naples.

I don't want to dwell too much on the survival (but there was an offer of letting Constantine rule in the Morea as a vassal, in exchange for Constantinople, so maybe that is how it happens).

I'd agree on a large influence with the Italians - IOTL the Italians were influenced by the Greeks, so the relationships built as the Roman Empire fell apart would likely persist and bring ideas back. That and there were plenty of Italian influences anyway. I wonder if Pleithon would leave a larger impact culturally in such a scenario - or if the (presumably Unionist/Catholic) Emperors/Despots would continue to seek outside military (Or economic?) assistance.

Or if this a post-1453 scenario, could the experience of cannons first hand lead to a New-Style Hexamilion Wall designed to resist cannon-fire?
 

Deleted member 97083

I don't want to dwell too much on the survival (but there was an offer of letting Constantine rule in the Morea as a vassal, in exchange for Constantinople, so maybe that is how it happens).

I'd agree on a large influence with the Italians - IOTL the Italians were influenced by the Greeks, so the relationships built as the Roman Empire fell apart would likely persist and bring ideas back. That and there were plenty of Italian influences anyway. I wonder if Pleithon would leave a larger impact culturally in such a scenario - or if the (presumably Unionist/Catholic) Emperors/Despots would continue to seek outside military (Or economic?) assistance.

Or if this a post-1453 scenario, could the experience of cannons first hand lead to a New-Style Hexamilion Wall designed to resist cannon-fire?
Best method of survival for the Palaiologan empire would be a Crusader victory in the Crusade of Varna. This is the latest POD that could save the Byzantine Empire as even a puppet state. Anything later would lead to its eventual direct annexation by either Venice or the Ottomans.
 
Best method of survival for the Palaiologan empire would be a Crusader victory in the Crusade of Varna. This is the latest POD that could save the Byzantine Empire as even a puppet state. Anything later would lead to its eventual direct annexation by either Venice or the Ottomans.
I may be somewhat biased but I would disagree with the idea that Venice could have made a puppet out of Constantinople for any length of time. The city was, even at the very end superbly well defended and where with the Ottomans, throwing back the siege of Constantinople would have likely delayed the inevitable more than anything (barring some disaster); Throwing back the Venetians, a much more likely prospect given the sheer number of people who have interest in curbing Venetian interests there, would ensure the city's safety from them at least for a much longer time.

Venice has neither the manpower nor the strategic situation to take Constantinople. Not that it is impossible, but the only time I know of that Venice was able to put a large enough force in the field to lay siege to a city like Constantinople was the Fourth Crusade, and I sincerely doubt they'd be able to pull that off again unless the city fell to the Ottomans first, and those same Ottomans suddenly turn incompetent.
 
Though more to the point of the thread, The Palaiologos might have fostered a Renaissance of sorts if they managed to stay stable, and the best way I've seen for that to happen would be a stronger focus on retaining their land in Anatolia and hopefully expanding upon it. It was this land that was the most economically active for the Empire for all of its history outside of Constantinople itself. Not to mention it would give the Empire the manpower it needs to not need to rely so much on mercenaries, which was one of the reasons they did so poorly in the first place.

Of course they also have the issue of the Dynatoi to deal with. They would need a series of capable rulers all willing to act in the vein of Basil and the Macedonian Dynasty, all while remaining strong enough to deal with any internal rebellion without trouble. Given their history, this is probably the tallest order of all. Civil war was practically a Roman tradition after all.
 
Though more to the point of the thread, The Palaiologos might have fostered a Renaissance of sorts if they managed to stay stable, and the best way I've seen for that to happen would be a stronger focus on retaining their land in Anatolia and hopefully expanding upon it. It was this land that was the most economically active for the Empire for all of its history outside of Constantinople itself. Not to mention it would give the Empire the manpower it needs to not need to rely so much on mercenaries, which was one of the reasons they did so poorly in the first place.

Of course they also have the issue of the Dynatoi to deal with. They would need a series of capable rulers all willing to act in the vein of Basil and the Macedonian Dynasty, all while remaining strong enough to deal with any internal rebellion without trouble. Given their history, this is probably the tallest order of all. Civil war was practically a Roman tradition after all.

The predecessors of the Palailogoi, the Laskarids, were that. Then their last scion got epilepsy, died, and the Palailogoi took power in a reactionary aristocratic coup.
 
The predecessors of the Palailogoi, the Laskarids, were that. Then their last scion got epilepsy, died, and the Palailogoi took power in a reactionary aristocratic coup.
And isn't just typical of them? Frankly I'm surprised he wasn't just assassinated, their nobles had no problems with that in the past.
 
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