Searching for a POD....

If this happens during the Civil War, then the U.S. is beat. The best time for the Spanish is 1864, really. U.S. is losing money, economy is hurtng, and Spain comes in to help C.S.A. perhaps in return for something out of the U.S.A. That Chincha Islands thing is good.

I too like this for a POD, but 1864 is late point to consider the war winnable for Dixie, even with Spanish help. Nonetheless, the war would be interesting.

By the way, I think I have an idea about what a Confederate deal with Spain might entail.
 
I too like this for a POD, but 1864 is late point to consider the war winnable for Dixie, even with Spanish help. Nonetheless, the war would be interesting.

By the way, I think I have an idea about what a Confederate deal with Spain might entail.


ah can hardly wait for this....

as to the CSA winning....all they have to do is delay things long enough to allow a President tired of War to be elected.... the CSA gets recognized simply through exhaustion of the US public's will to continue fighting...
 
ah can hardly wait for this....

as to the CSA winning....all they have to do is delay things long enough to allow a President tired of War to be elected.... the CSA gets recognized simply through exhaustion of the US public's will to continue fighting...

I think that the Union could pull through, but it won't be easy.
 
No Way

@Communist Wizard. Not to sound snippy but your comment is total BS. The Union was doing very well by 1864. So long as the UK remained neutral the US could continue to get any war loan it needed. Spain's navy would get nowhere near the US coast and the US would rush to complete the large ocean-going moniters that had been designed. Also by this point the Union Army had weeded out nearly all of its more incompetant leaders and had three years of experiance. Also, unless Lincoln was assassinated or had his brain replaced by that of a sheep's he would have fought the war to its conclusion regardless of who entered the side of the CSA. With the CSA allied to a foreign power the Copperheads would have been undermined and Spain would have been tied to a dying ally with no hope of winning. Also, it is very likely that the UK would have given the US covert support so as to preserve the Monroe Doctrine.

After Gettysburg/Vicksburg its very likely that the only single nation that could have altered the course of the ACW in anyway except delaying the given outcome was the UK. No other nation had the force-projection to fight the type of large scale industrial warfare of the ACW while otuproducing the US industrially. Spain would have lost Cuba and Puerto Rico to the US and have been forced out of Peru and Santo Domingo by 1867 (assuming the rest of the ACW goes about the same as OTL). What happens in the Pacific is more difficult to say but it is possible that an American squadron could occupy Manila or at least Guam and the smaller islands.

Benjamin
 
I see potentially long-lasting ramifications resulting from this POD concerning the relations of American (independent) states towards each other.
 
Go on...

I see potentially long-lasting ramifications resulting from this POD concerning the relations of American (independent) states towards each other.

About what?

If the South gets Spanish support, other states (within government limits) work with other nations (like CA and enviromental issues with Britain)?
Because I would think that if the US was still victorious, it would react and force all states even further from international meddeling than they are otl.

Could you elaborate?
 
About what?

If the South gets Spanish support, other states (within government limits) work with other nations (like CA and enviromental issues with Britain)?
Because I would think that if the US was still victorious, it would react and force all states even further from international meddeling than they are otl.

Could you elaborate?

Sure. What I mean is that the U.S. and Latin America could be on far friendlier terms ITTL due to the shared war against the Spanish.
 
Ah. I didn't read it right.

So, is an American Caribbean even viable? It's a rich area, and many nations have interests in the region.
 
Ah. I didn't read it right.

So, is an American Caribbean even viable? It's a rich area, and many nations have interests in the region.

Well, I think that the U.S. will control or greatly influence the Greater Antilles, but I see little change in the East Caribbean, beyond the formation of stronger federations among the British-held islands.

Essentially, I was thinking that the Monroe Doctrine would be viewed as rather more friendly and beneficial in Latin America ITTL. Furthermore, the U.S. of TTL could be more skeptical about the various European powers in general, and may be more likely to continue its policy of staying out of squabbles on the European continent.
 
I want to prompt a war between the U.S. and Spain in the 1860's, and preferably to start in the early part of the decade. How do I do it?
Spain decides to support Mexico in the Mexican American War.Or avenge it,since 1860s were slightly after the Mexican-American War.Kinda obvious..
As a butterfly,you do realize that the Civil War was raging at the same time dont you?Would have fighting a second war against the Spanish have taken off just enough forces to enable a Confederate victory?That would certainly be the most imaginative single POD for a independent Confederacy Ive seen here so far..would a independent Confederacy have strong relationships with Spain then?Perhaps the Spanish would sell places like Sonora and Cuba to the Confederates easily,and the Confederates would support the Empire of Mexico...I encourage someone to look into a timeline on this.
 
Spain decides to support Mexico in the Mexican American War.Or avenge it,since 1860s were slightly after the Mexican-American War.Kinda obvious..
As a butterfly,you do realize that the Civil War was raging at the same time dont you?Would have fighting a second war against the Spanish have taken off just enough forces to enable a Confederate victory?That would certainly be the most imaginative single POD for a independent Confederacy Ive seen here so far..would a independent Confederacy have strong relationships with Spain then?Perhaps the Spanish would sell places like Sonora and Cuba to the Confederates easily,and the Confederates would support the Empire of Mexico...I encourage someone to look into a timeline on this.

Now, I may have to make two timelines....
 

Glen

Moderator
I want to prompt a war between the U.S. and Spain in the 1860's, and preferably to start in the early part of the decade. How do I do it?

Get yourself a jingoistic president who wants to make a land grab in Cuba. That would be the easiest.
 
The Ostend Manifesto. The idea that Cuba was to be an empire for slavery on the Southern model and gained by force if needs be. The USA might start that war and then wind up in a civil war on its own soil over the whole business.
 
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