Sealion as a Dieppe-style raid

Would small commando teams getting ashore in little boats in remote areas of coastline such as Wales (off the top of my head, someone with better knowledge of British geography can provide better places) count? Naturally, this wouldn't exactly cause Churchill to shit his pants or for Big Ben to bend over to provide space for a giant statue of Hitler in Westminster Square, but it could be useful for demoralization purposes. Unless of course they already tried this trick.
 
You can call it what ever you want, that only makes you look bad. Try reading instead of posting, then you would understand just how desperate the real situation was.

"The Royal Navy's Home Fleet in World War II", James Levy Chapters 2; 3 & 4 touch on the difficulties in detecting single and groups of surface ships.

Churchill " The second World War" Vol 2; Chapter 14 covers this problem related to Sealion. In point of fact Pounds worse case scenario had 200,000 German troops landing in smaller groups around most of the UK along the lines of what happened in Norway. So not a huge invasion armada landing in one place, but many smaller groups landing in different ports, than any one central command can possibly deal with.

Since the RAF couldn't sink much of anything, the Germans didn't need air superiority over each port prior to or during any overnight invasion. As was the case in Norway, the British would be unable to mount naval attacks against all ports, but would have only some success in some ports.

You do know that only one out of ever 3 ships in the British coastal trawler fleet were armed, with one WW-I gun plus a couple of AAMg , while the rest were ASW vessels with ASDIC and D/C, armed with only machine guns. These were no match for the German "Vorpostenboote", that usually sported two 88mm WW-I naval guns plus modern flak [ usually 1x37mm and 2x 20mm flak early in the war].

O'Hara's "The German Fleet at War, 1939-1945"; Chapters 3 & 6 Cover the RN coastal forces through 1942. Even when enemy groups of ships WHERE known to be in waters through Ultra and were detected mid channel by RADAR, it still took 6-12 hours to actually intercept them and often such intercepts attempts failed in the early years do to ineffective command.

Face it our forces were incompetent through the first years of the war, and it is only by miracles we survived long enough for Hitler to make his many mistakes, like invading Russia and waging a war against the worlds super powers combined, to say nothing of taking over dictatorial directing of the war effort.

One of these days you people will learn....but not today <evil grin>
 
It's not a Dieppe style raid that the Germans needed - too risky. If it is a success what have you gained - not a lot except propaganda, and a more prepared enemy. But if is not successful - all the Germans gain is 'well it was only a raid', case of minimise risks. A lose - lose position.

However, a more successful option for the Germans would be an analogue of the Bruneval raid (where British troops secured the secrets of the German radar). By making a late evening glider attack on a few British radar sites, with exit via E-Boat. Such an audacious attack might have brought success with out too greater a risk.
Source: S Bungay The most Dangerous Enemy P.377

the British actually feared this and moved a lot of their radar research sites away from the south coast. ( a few were located there ) after the British raid they got intel that the Germans had sent 24 train loads of paratroopers to Cherburg and thus the evacuation.

a one day raid could be done as a surprise but it would entail heavy casualties and probably not be worth the effort
 
Would small commando teams getting ashore in little boats in remote areas of coastline such as Wales (off the top of my head, someone with better knowledge of British geography can provide better places) count? Naturally, this wouldn't exactly cause Churchill to shit his pants or for Big Ben to bend over to provide space for a giant statue of Hitler in Westminster Square, but it could be useful for demoralization purposes. Unless of course they already tried this trick.

Wales wouldn't make sense however if these small groups never actualy did anything or caused any major damage the British could just call it black propaganda.
 

MrP

Banned
You can call it what ever you want, that only makes you look bad. Try reading instead of posting, then you would understand just how desperate the real situation was.

"The Royal Navy's Home Fleet in World War II", James Levy Chapters 2; 3 & 4 touch on the difficulties in detecting single and groups of surface ships.

Churchill " The second World War" Vol 2; Chapter 14 covers this problem related to Sealion. In point of fact Pounds worse case scenario had 200,000 German troops landing in smaller groups around most of the UK along the lines of what happened in Norway. So not a huge invasion armada landing in one place, but many smaller groups landing in different ports, than any one central command can possibly deal with.

Since the RAF couldn't sink much of anything, the Germans didn't need air superiority over each port prior to or during any overnight invasion. As was the case in Norway, the British would be unable to mount naval attacks against all ports, but would have only some success in some ports.

You do know that only one out of ever 3 ships in the British coastal trawler fleet were armed, with one WW-I gun plus a couple of AAMg , while the rest were ASW vessels with ASDIC and D/C, armed with only machine guns. These were no match for the German "Vorpostenboote", that usually sported two 88mm WW-I naval guns plus modern flak [ usually 1x37mm and 2x 20mm flak early in the war].

O'Hara's "The German Fleet at War, 1939-1945"; Chapters 3 & 6 Cover the RN coastal forces through 1942. Even when enemy groups of ships WHERE known to be in waters through Ultra and were detected mid channel by RADAR, it still took 6-12 hours to actually intercept them and often such intercepts attempts failed in the early years do to ineffective command.

Face it our forces were incompetent through the first years of the war, and it is only by miracles we survived long enough for Hitler to make his many mistakes, like invading Russia and waging a war against the worlds super powers combined, to say nothing of taking over dictatorial directing of the war effort.

One of these days you people will learn....but not today <evil grin>

Just out of interest, does Pound's worst-case scenario bear relation to the actual German plans for Sealion?
 
Just out of interest, does Pound's worst-case scenario bear relation to the actual German plans for Sealion?

A scenario any worse would include the entire RN defecting, Hitler gaining the powers of Superman and the Home islands sinking.
 
Top