Se Deus quiser, há-de brilhar! - Uma História do Império Português (Updated 07/05)

Lusitania

Donor
In 1453 the Ottoman fleet participated in the historic conquests of Constantinople, Gökçeada, Lemnos and Thasos. The conquest of the Duchy of Athens and the Despotate of the Morea was completed between 1458 and 1460, followed by the conquest of the Empire of Trebizond and the Genoese colony of Amasra in 1461, which brought an end to the final vestiges of the Byzantine Empire. In 1462 the Ottoman fleet conquered the Genoese islands of the northern Aegean Sea, which were administered by the Gattilusio family, including their capital Mytilene in the island of Lesbos. This was followed by the Ottoman-Venetian War of 1463-1479. In the following period the Ottoman fleet gained more territory in the Aegean Sea, and in 1475 set foot on Crimea on the northern shores of the Black Sea. Until 1499 this was followed by further expansion on the Black Sea coasts (such as the conquest of Georgia in 1479) and on the Balkan peninsula (such as the final reconquest of Albania in 1497, and the conquest of Montenegro in 1499). The loss of Venetian forts in Montenegro, near the strategic Castelnuovo, triggered the Ottoman-Venetian War of 1499-1503, during which the Turkish fleet of Kemal Reis defeated the Venetian forces at the Battle of Zonchio (1499) and the Battle of Modon (1500). By 1503 the Ottoman fleet raided the northeastern Adriatic coasts of Italy, and completely captured the Venetian lands on Morea, the Ionian Sea coast and the southeastern Adriatic Sea coast.


That's about the extent and capabilities of Turkish naval operations at the time.
Granada is too far away that the Turks mght do something meaningful at the time, not to mention send 3 large expeditionary armies.
I agree, their power base is the Aegean Sea, Eastern Med and Black Sea. For them to go to Iberian peninsula they need to control malta and Sicily. Otherwise that their fleet could be attacked and destroyed and they have no way of getting them back. Plus it would mean they need to strip their other territories of their naval forces
 
About Nova Lusitania, isn't it logical that it comprises OTL Quebec and even maybe Ontario too, because when you have Maritimes and N. England, then ST. Lawrence river is close, and there's no better mode of communication at the time... Plus Portugal will have 100+ years head start, way before France or England...
 
I'm still very committed to writing this TL as usual as I am very busy lately, especially now that I am taking college courses again this fall semester; and the classes are more difficult than usual now that I have many years' worth of college credits eligible for transferring to a 4-year college, such as physics and calculus.

IMHO, Ottomans sending 3 big armies so far away seems too much. Power projection of that size requires: a) many ships and b) Being free of other threats.
Ottomans at the time aren't yet so powerful.

In 1453 the Ottoman fleet participated in the historic conquests of Constantinople, Gökçeada, Lemnos and Thasos. The conquest of the Duchy of Athens and the Despotate of the Morea was completed between 1458 and 1460, followed by the conquest of the Empire of Trebizond and the Genoese colony of Amasra in 1461, which brought an end to the final vestiges of the Byzantine Empire. In 1462 the Ottoman fleet conquered the Genoese islands of the northern Aegean Sea, which were administered by the Gattilusio family, including their capital Mytilene in the island of Lesbos. This was followed by the Ottoman-Venetian War of 1463-1479. In the following period the Ottoman fleet gained more territory in the Aegean Sea, and in 1475 set foot on Crimea on the northern shores of the Black Sea. Until 1499 this was followed by further expansion on the Black Sea coasts (such as the conquest of Georgia in 1479) and on the Balkan peninsula (such as the final reconquest of Albania in 1497, and the conquest of Montenegro in 1499). The loss of Venetian forts in Montenegro, near the strategic Castelnuovo, triggered the Ottoman-Venetian War of 1499-1503, during which the Turkish fleet of Kemal Reis defeated the Venetian forces at the Battle of Zonchio (1499) and the Battle of Modon (1500). By 1503 the Ottoman fleet raided the northeastern Adriatic coasts of Italy, and completely captured the Venetian lands on Morea, the Ionian Sea coast and the southeastern Adriatic Sea coast.


That's about the extent and capabilities of Turkish naval operations at the time.
Granada is too far away that the Turks mght do something meaningful at the time, not to mention send 3 large expeditionary armies.

I agree, their power base is the Aegean Sea, Eastern Med and Black Sea. For them to go to Iberian peninsula they need to control malta and Sicily. Otherwise that their fleet could be attacked and destroyed and they have no way of getting them back. Plus it would mean they need to strip their other territories of their naval forces

Maybe the Ottomans can occupy Malta (which would be easier for them since it's not as fortified as in the OTL 1565 siege) and parts of Sicily as a waystop for the Ottomans between Greece and Granada, and maybe a treaty with the Hafsids and the Zayyanids to go along with that. I think a 1 medium-sized expeditionary force would be good enough for the Ottomans in Granada, and an even smaller token force to raid Tânger and Ceuta and assist the Moroccans. The other events I am planning (Iberian/Mamluk alliance, Venetian intervention and a subsequent joint Polish-Hungarian-Bohemian Varna Crusade 2.0) for the next chapter will go as usual.

About Nova Lusitania, isn't it logical that it comprises OTL Quebec and even maybe Ontario too, because when you have Maritimes and N. England, then ST. Lawrence river is close, and there's no better mode of communication at the time... Plus Portugal will have 100+ years head start, way before France or England...

Originally, I am planning to keep the French in Canada and go for a smaller Portuguese America (Newfoundland, Canadian Maritimes, New England) with its northern boundary south of the St. Lawrence river (and possibly including Montreal island) and its western boundary in the east of the Hudson river up to the suburbs of NYC, which would belong to Britain.

I think a larger one that includes most of Canada and OTL USA north of the Ohio river and east of the Mississippi and parts of Pennsylvania could work, taking cues from Viriato's Portuguese North America TL, along with a smaller British North America and the French taking control of the South instead of Canada. Here's what it would possibly look like TTL in 1805, presuming butterflies happening, with the 1805 map from Viriato's TL posted in comparison. Given that Portugal now has a bigger population base than OTL, this bigger Portuguese North America would provide a strong population base for more settlers overseas, especially when gold is discovered in Brazil as it becomes a settler colony later in the 18th century, and also more arable land to narrow the cereal deficit.

@Gabingston

PortugueseNorthAmerica_Gintoki.png
PortugueseNorthAmerica1805_Viriato.png
 
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Lusitania

Donor
I'm still very committed to writing this TL as usual as I am very busy lately, especially now that I am taking college courses again this fall semester; and the classes are more difficult than usual now that I have many years' worth of college credits eligible for transferring to a 4-year college, such as physics and calculus.







Maybe the Ottomans can occupy Malta (which would be easier for them since it's not as fortified as in the OTL 1565 siege) and parts of Sicily as a waystop for the Ottomans between Greece and Granada, and maybe a treaty with the Hafsids and the Zayyanids to go along with that. I think a 1 medium-sized expeditionary force would be good enough for the Ottomans in Granada, and an even smaller token force to raid Tânger and Ceuta and assist the Moroccans. The other events I am planning (Iberian/Mamluk alliance, Venetian intervention and a subsequent joint Polish-Hungarian-Bohemian Varna Crusade 2.0) for the next chapter will go as usual.



Originally, I am planning to keep the French in Canada and go for a smaller Portuguese America (Newfoundland, Canadian Maritimes, New England) with its northern boundary south of the St. Lawrence river (and possibly including Montreal island) and its western boundary in the east of the Hudson river up to the suburbs of NYC, which would belong to Britain.

I think a larger one that includes most of Canada and OTL USA north of the Ohio river and east of the Mississippi and parts of Pennsylvania could work, taking cues from Viriato's Portuguese North America TL, along with a smaller British North America and the French taking control of the South instead of Canada. Here's what it would possibly look like TTL in 1805, presuming butterflies happening, with the 1805 map from Viriato's TL posted in comparison. Given that Portugal now has a bigger population base than OTL, this bigger Portuguese North America would provide a strong population base for more settlers overseas, especially when gold is discovered in Brazil as it becomes a settler colony later in the 18th century, and also more arable land to narrow the cereal deficit.

@Gabingston

Ok that was one person’s interpretation of New Portugal. I seen others where it is more Confederate US.

regardless of the shape of of New Portugal we need to understand some basic North American geographic facts.
1) until advent of railroad access to interior of NA was dependent on use of water system (river and lake). Once we past the coast we need good water transportation to expand your control.
2) the St Lawrence river provided an early advantage with river navigable by ocean ships to present place Montreal. With building of locks and canals the entire Great Lakes can be accessed.
3) Mississippi is another great waterway and without it the US would not been able to settle the interior in the manner it did (before railway). Therefore control of river and its port are crucial. (Neutral New Orleans also work) but if one power holds entrance to river then those upstream at that country mercy in terms of shipping and access.
4) a much larger Portugal may have different colonization strategies depending on the group. It will really depend on Portuguese strategy. A northern Portugal group May focus on settlement in New England & New France areas since that coincides with their initial interest in being close to fishing grounds and access to large timber reserves. Where as a southern Portugal or commercial might sponsor settlement in southern regions of NA to grown for example cotton and tobacco to compete with Portuguese rivals in Brazil.

therefore choose who is going to be the colonizer and go from there. Remember the priorities of the 15-16th century may not be the same as 17-18th century.
 
Agreed. Who gets New England and New Scotia will also get Quebec and Ontario. Simply because of river. On the other hand, I doubt that Portugal will go both North (ST. Lawrence) and South (Mississippi). Not enough resources.
 
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Also, whoever gets Great Lakes, will get the most of Canadian Prairies, at least until Rockies and Continental divide. Who will get B. Columbia is the real question. Could the French do something about that?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Yes a concentration of Portuguese settlement around Hudson River to St Lawrence will actually provide the Portuguese with the best land to settle and for colony to grow. The reduced amount of tropical diseases and abundant food provided a much better environment to growth of colonies than southern and Caribbean colonies. As for late 16th and 17th century that be hard to determine. Once TL gets going a 100 years we have to look at what the main country and its neighbors and adversaries would do to counter the situation that exists at that time.
 
Yes, the problem is, this stronger Portugal would have a full Europe of enemies, from France to England, Castille etc. They will want their colonies.
And, especially after industrialisation, all these countries are/can be stronger than even this Portugal, because Portugal can't be strong everywhere, from Canada to Brazil to South Africa to Ceylon....
 
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I'm still very committed to writing this TL as usual as I am very busy lately, especially now that I am taking college courses again this fall semester; and the classes are more difficult than usual now that I have many years' worth of college credits eligible for transferring to a 4-year college, such as physics and calculus.












@Gabingston


This blue territory belongs to the French or?
 
Update on the TL's status New
As much as I am dedicated to developing this timeline, I had a lot of personal/mental problems over the past few months (i.e. last semester's college courses, being laid off from my previous job and looking for a new one, family-related issues, etc...), but so far I am currently recovering from these problems and I look forward to writing new, exciting chapters soon.

In addition, there was a long writer's block I had and the personal problems prolonged it even further regarding the next chapter about the Ottoman intervention in Granada. However, looking at the latest chapter of Torbald's "Una diferente ‘Plus Ultra’" TL with an Ottoman invasion of Italy I think I have some inspiration to continue writing the next chapter, since I already wrote some of it.

@Torbald

This blue territory belongs to the French or?
Yeah, the blue territory belongs to the French.
 
Be strong my friend. We are all with you. RL of course is the most important thing. And for the TL, when you are able to write something, we will be grateful.

Personally, this site comes as a relief to me from my every day's worries.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Life has the habit of taking us along for ride. Sometimes the journey is fun other times it’s bumpy but it is our journey. Know that we have you in our prayers snd that you come out of it at other side. Wish you strength and peace in your journey and keep safe / healthy is what we all wish. Keep grounded in life while living you dreams.
 
As much as I am dedicated to developing this timeline, I had a lot of personal/mental problems over the past few months (i.e. last semester's college courses, being laid off from my previous job and looking for a new one, family-related issues, etc...), but so far I am currently recovering from these problems and I look forward to writing new, exciting chapters soon.

In addition, there was a long writer's block I had and the personal problems prolonged it even further regarding the next chapter about the Ottoman intervention in Granada. However, looking at the latest chapter of Torbald's "Una diferente ‘Plus Ultra’" TL with an Ottoman invasion of Italy I think I have some inspiration to continue writing the next chapter, since I already wrote some of it.

@Torbald


Yeah, the blue territory belongs to the French.
Wish you a continuing recovery from your real life problems.
 
As much as I am dedicated to developing this timeline, I had a lot of personal/mental problems over the past few months (i.e. last semester's college courses, being laid off from my previous job and looking for a new one, family-related issues, etc...), but so far I am currently recovering from these problems and I look forward to writing new, exciting chapters soon.

In addition, there was a long writer's block I had and the personal problems prolonged it even further regarding the next chapter about the Ottoman intervention in Granada. However, looking at the latest chapter of Torbald's "Una diferente ‘Plus Ultra’" TL with an Ottoman invasion of Italy I think I have some inspiration to continue writing the next chapter, since I already wrote some of it.

@Torbald


Yeah, the blue territory belongs to the French.
I hope you get better!
 
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