Se Deus quiser, há-de brilhar! - Uma História do Império Português (Updated 03/18)

I think for TTL the majority of the Catholics in Portuguese Luzon would most likely be in the denser areas (in light yellow) from the dense dots in Ilocos Norte to Batangas, while the rural, spare areas (in dark) would remain Pagan/Hindu. By the time the Portuguese establish relations with Oda Japan, Japanese Catholic communities would eventually form in major cities like Tondo, Binalatongan and Batangas and would eventually contribute to the spread of Catholicism there and eventually dominate Luzon's economy instead of the overseas Chinese population, which would be eventually restricted to Visayas.
Thats your timeline, you can write whatever you want.

But the Portuguese did not even bother to mass convert East Timor ITTL.
 
Last edited:
The next chapter will focus on the political changes with João II living longer TTL.

From the planning thread, while Manuel I was a good king for Portugal OTL, and reaching the empire at its extent, he did it as the expense of the nobles and the clergy regaining power (for example, pardoning the Braganças and restoring their estates), ignoring with power struggles, and perhaps indulging with the court too much with the money coming from the trade.

With Infante Afonso's death being butterflied and having a healthy son with Catherine of York (I'll name him Infante Duarte), these two successors to João II will have more humility and contribute more to developing Portugal more than OTL. With the expulsion of the Jews and free Muslims being butterflied and keeping the nobles like the Braganças in check, they will have time to bring in the ideas of the Renaissance and move towards a more capitalistic mindset, like the formation of insurances, the creation of an early stock market and taking in Byzantine refugees and small numbers of migrants from Italy, for example.

Interesting ideas. Don't let us waiting.:)
 
I wonder, could much more developed Portugal have also much higher population density? England today has 430 per sq kilometer. Portugal 110. With Leon and Galicia even less, about 100.
With even a moderate increase of say 120 or 130 people per km2 ( so not 430 like in England- they had a lot more of coal and iron ), that's the difference between Portugal with population of 26 mil. and 31 mil. or 34 mil.
 
Last edited:
I think for TTL the majority of the Catholics in Portuguese Luzon would most likely be in the denser areas (in light yellow) from the dense dots in Ilocos Norte to Batangas, while the rural, spare areas (in dark) would remain Pagan/Hindu. By the time the Portuguese establish relations with Oda Japan, Japanese Catholic communities would eventually form in major cities like Tondo, Binalatongan and Batangas and would eventually contribute to the spread of Catholicism there and eventually dominate Luzon's economy instead of the overseas Chinese population, which would be eventually restricted to Visayas.
Some of the Pagan Ethnic groups in Northern Luzon could dominate instead of Ilocano likely Sinauna of Tondo and Gaddang/Irraya of the upper Cagayan rivershed or a mix of these two...I think Northern Luzon will be 60-40 Pagan-Christian ratio while the south is predominantly christian.

Ilocanos primarily benefited from the famines in the 18th and 19th centuries, here it does not even happen aka butterflied.
 
Last edited:
The issue with Japan was that Portuguese Catholicism became greater than imperialism. So that Catholicism became a threat to the ruling Japanese class control of the people. Which led to the persecution of Catholics in japan. All catholic priests were hunted and killed and all Catholics attacks. Forcing the remaining ones to practice their religion in secret for decades.

This was a problem with Portuguese imperialism in all of India and Ásia. The colonial authorities and religious authorities were in many ways indistinguishable. Especially with the Sdvdnt of inquisition.

if inquisition is never integrated then Catholics could live alongside other religions within the Portuguese colonies.

At times spreading religion was more important than maintaining control or expanding the empire. When religious figures have greater influence over the administration of the colonies then you stop having political control over the colonies.

this was an issue in many other parts of the country even in metropolitan Portugal. Where the priest was regarded as more important and had greater control over a region than the appointed administrator. This resulted in priests fighting the implementation of government policy and forcing or influencing nobles and administrative people in spending public $ on religious infrastructure instead of public or economic infrastructure that would advance the colonies, county of areas economy.

The role of the Catholic Church in Japan will be mostly regulated to the Jesuits, who are mostly Portuguese with some Spaniards and Italian and will bring in some Portuguese influence like OTL. The TTL Oda Shogunate will come in the next century and will establish ties with Portugal in the late 16th/early 17th century, but it will be limited to an outpost in Nagasaki for a trade, as well as some Portuguese ships aiding the Oda clan in the later stages of the Sengoku period, but I don't really want to see it as an foreign power grab.

@BBadolato and @IntellectuallyHonestRhino I would like to hear any feedback too on this one, as we have discussed about this a lot in the Japanese Catholicism thread late last year, since I am aiming for a 30% Catholic Japan for this TL.

Interesting ideas. Don't let us waiting.:)

Hopefully I can get the next chapter up and running most likely by next weekend since I am now a full-time student this college semester with four courses (in addition to working full-time) and I have an exam coming up on Thursday.

I wonder, could much more developed Portugal have also much higher population density? England today has 430 per sq kilometer. Portugal 110. With Leon and Galicia even less, about 100.
With even a moderate increase of say 120 or 130 people per km2 ( so not 430 like in England- they had a lot more of coal and iron ), that's the difference between Portugal with population of 26 mil. and 31 mil. or 34 mil.

The total area for TTL Metropolitan Portugal would be around 230,000 km2 (Portugal + Galicia + Leon + Extremadura + Asturias + Huelva Province + Canary Islands). The average density for these areas would amount to 100. An increase of 125 per km2 would increase the population of TTL Portugal in the modern day to around 52 million, even more than the population of Spain OTL. Not sure how this could work out though, maybe around 35 to 40 million would be more feasible.

Some of the Pagan Ethnic groups in Northern Luzon could dominate instead of Ilocano likely Sinauna of Tondo and Gaddang/Irraya of the upper Cagayan rivershed or a mix of these two...I think Northern Luzon will be 60-40 Pagan-Christian ratio while the south is predominantly christian.

Ilocanos primarily benefited from the famines in the 18th and 19th centuries, here it does not even happen aka butterflied.

Fair enough. I think the Cagayan Valley and the Cordillera Region would be predominantly Pagan TTL while the Ilocos, Central Luzon, Calabarzon and Bicol regions would be Christian.

Regarding Luzon, I think either Celudão or Catagalugão (a Portuguese transliteration of Katagalugan) would be the names of the province (Província Portuguesa de Celudão/Catagalugão) since you've mentioned earlier that the name is a misnomer.
 
Regarding Luzon, I think either Celudão or Catagalugão (a Portuguese transliteration of Katagalugan) would be the names of the province (Província Portuguesa de Celudão/Catagalugão) since you've mentioned earlier that the name is a misnomer.
Yep, it is possible
Terrien de Lacouperie’s notes called the Gaddans and Kalingas as Tagala tribes. There are present-day northern Luzon tribes of the same names; but neither tribe calls Tagalog as a native language.
But Katagalugan is more controversial to write, I would write it as Celudao or Selurong.

Tarlac, Zambales, Aurora and Nueva Ecija would remain Predominantly Pagan ITTL as well.
 
Last edited:
The issue with Japan was that Portuguese Catholicism became greater than imperialism. So that Catholicism became a threat to the ruling Japanese class control of the people. Which led to the persecution of Catholics in japan. All catholic priests were hunted and killed and all Catholics attacks. Forcing the remaining ones to practice their religion in secret for decades.
I think Nobunaga wasn't against portuguese influence or convertion in Japan, a POD there could make Japan open to trade and in the Portuguese sphere of influence, using the Jesuits missions.
 
The total area for TTL Metropolitan Portugal would be around 230,000 km2 (Portugal + Galicia + Leon + Extremadura + Asturias + Huelva Province + Canary Islands). The average density for these areas would amount to 100. An increase of 125 per km2 would increase the population of TTL Portugal in the modern day to around 52 million, even more than the population of Spain OTL. Not sure how this could work out though, maybe around 35 to 40 million would be more feasible.

Shouldn't Portugal also get a larger part of Andalusia, as a reward for assistance to Castille in taking Grenada? Say Seville and Cadiz? Maybe even Gibraltar?

I agree that 40-50 millions is way too much, but maybe 30-35 millions could be possible?
 
Last edited:
The role of the Catholic Church in Japan will be mostly regulated to the Jesuits, who are mostly Portuguese with some Spaniards and Italian and will bring in some Portuguese influence like OTL. The TTL Oda Shogunate will come in the next century and will establish ties with Portugal in the late 16th/early 17th century, but it will be limited to an outpost in Nagasaki for a trade, as well as some Portuguese ships aiding the Oda clan in the later stages of the Sengoku period, but I don't really want to see it as an foreign power grab.

@BBadolato and @IntellectuallyHonestRhino I would like to hear any feedback too on this one, as we have discussed about this a lot in the Japanese Catholicism thread late last year, since I am aiming for a 30% Catholic Japan for this TL.

I'm going to try and answer this in the best way I possibly can. My knowledge of Japan for this period is largely limited to the later Sengoku era around and after the rise of Oda Nobunaga, so what your trying is playing with some serious fire. Japan by 1475 is in the end stages of the Onin war that saw the power structure of large nobles clan as governors like the Yamana, Hakateyama, and Hosokawa utterly break down as many clan would begin to wage war for their own reasons, and central authority would be nominal. Getting an Oda shogunate of this is going to require a very large butterfly net.

The Oda of Owari started out as vassals of the Shiba clan in Owari Province, and after a period of time the Shiba grew weak, while the Oda grew stronger, after a few periods of division and the eventually fortuitous decline of the Matsudaira clan of Mikawa in the 1540's in the lead up to the battle of Okehazama. Okehazama left the Oda with their biggest threat weakened, and with a buffer to their east, this is where is more luck kicks in. The Oda rose to power in an area their neighbors proved incompetent, weak or divided like the Saito, Rokakku, and Miyoshi, or were situated in areas were they were on the peripheries of notable clans like the Takeda, Uesugi, and Hojo. Even if you somehow get an Oda Shogunate, there is nothing stopping persecutions of Christians, afterall Nobunaga tolerated the Catholics because they were useful, if they became another troublesome mass movement the Ikko Ikki, then they can really suffer for it in some gruesome ways.

Even outside of the Oda, the Catholics might as well have rolled two sets of snake eyes in terms of who they choose as patrons. The Arima of Hirado were weak, the Otomo were not as strong as they seemed, and the Ouchi collapsed due to political infighting resulting in the rebellion of their vassals the Mori. There is also the question what are you going to do about the reformist sentiments of the church, and will be the same low tolerance of unchristian cultural practices that came up even among Jesuits, assuming their are Jesuits. Your making a lot of assumptions how things are playing out when it really might not be the case with checking for butterflies, but this your timeline and you can play God with it however you wish.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Shouldn't Portugal also get a larger part of Andalusia, as a reward for assistance to Castille in taking Grenada? Say Seville and Cadiz? Maybe even Gibraltar?

I agree that 40-50 millions is way too much, but maybe 30-35 millions could be possible?
Portugal could either get some border regions is assistance to Castile or if relations with Castile are not good provide Grenada with protection in return Grenada become a vassal of Portugal. Both options are valid. Depends on author.
 
Chapter 7 - Pela Lei e Pela Grei
Chapter 7 - Pela Lei e Pela Grei

- A suitor for Infante Afonso -

b8781e5faf8432957b7341ff5b3648b8.jpg

Catherine of York
In 1494, João II made a royal visit to London to meet with the King of England, Henry VII of the House of Tudor. In an effort to uphold the traditional Anglo-Portuguese Alliance that has been stipulated a century earlier in the Treaty of Windsor, João requested a marriage to be arranged between Infante Afonso (the future Afonso VI) and one of the daughters of Henry’s predecessor Edward IV of the House of York, Catherine. Henry later agreed in order to pursue stronger ties with his Portuguese counterpart, and the two were married a year later. They would eventually bear six children:
  • Infante João (b. September 25, 1498 - d. March 9, 1499) - died in infancy
  • Infante Duarte (b. September 27, 1500) - third in line to the Portuguese succession after João II and Infante Afonso, succeeded as Duarte II upon Afonso’s death in (REDACTED)
  • Infanta Joana (b. March 14, 1503)
  • Infanta Isabel (b. November 10, 1507)
  • Infante Miguel (b. June 10, 1509)
  • Infante Fernando (b. November 4, 1513)
- The Beja Conspiracy and the aftermath -
By 1496, fifteen years into his reign, the 41 year old King João II began to move away towards decentralized feudalism, starting a long process towards developing Portugal into a centralised modern state. Following the Bragança and Viseu conspiracies nearly a decade earlier, the influence and the traditional rights and privileges that was once enjoyed by the nobility and the clergy began to fade, and the mentality of upholding tradition, balance and harmony began to transform into one that upholds development, progress, and the humanities.

The rising centralization and curbing of privileges were welcomed by many as a result of João II’s charisma and vigor to forge a stronger kingdom, but still, not everyone supported his policies. The last notable opposition was led by Infante Manuel, the Duke of Beja, as he grew bitter against João and tried one last time to stem the tide against this trend. In February of 1496, Manuel began to scheme a plot with some of the surviving families that participated in the Viseu conspiracy to assassinate Infante Afonso and pressure João II to back down on centralizing the domains, and then shortly poisoning and succeeding him as king upon the event of his death. Fortunately, with only little support given to Manuel, the malicious plot was discovered by João and Manuel attempted to flee in disguise to Aragon, where he died in a fatal horse-riding accident near the town of Tordesillas in Castile a month later [1]. By this time, any notable opposition to João II’s policies was extinguished, with the remaining opposition variously submitting to the king in fear of retribution. It is now the royal branch of the House of Avis that is now the most prominent.

Fons_Vitae_(c._1515-1517)_-_Colijn_de_Coter_(attributed)_(cropped).png

An alleged portrait of a young Infante Manuel, Duke of Beja (1469-1496) in a religious painting commissioned by him
After crushing the Beja conspiracy, João sought to put the administration of the country back on track. In creating the modern state, laws play a fundamental role, especially for those who write and enforce it under the king. In the early years of the Kingdom, Portuguese jurists were trained under the Bolognese school and insisted that the rule of the king is supreme, universal and binding. Built upon the foundations of Roman and Byzantine law, the role of lawyers of government has greatly expanded, and so with the amount of royal legislation that had to be codified, beginning with the Afonsine Ordinances (Ordenações Afonsinas) of 1446 under Afonso V's reign.

358px-Código_Filipino_(Ordenações_Filipinas).jpeg

One of the title pages of the copies of the Johannine Ordinances, c. 1600
A session of the cortes would be held in Lisbon a year later in 1497 to rectify the power of the king, and a set of laws that legitimizes the newfound power that is vested upon the king called the Johannine Ordinances (Ordenações Joaninas) was promulgated, which imposes among the most prominent changes:
  • Stripping the nobility of several privileges, landed estates, major tax exemptions and the ability to gain certain titles
  • Grant titles and land only to a select few members of the royal branch of the family.
  • Court proceedings are to become more standardized and closely regulated with the appointment of officials loyal to the crown, giving the various courts like the Royal Court (Casa da Suplicação) and the Civil Court (Casa do Cível) more authority and reputation,
  • Beginning the slow process of integrating the laws of Galiza and Leão into the main Portuguese law, working with the Galician junta and the Leonese cortes

Comarcas.png

The comarcas of Portugal, Galiza and Leão as of 1490

During this time, Portugal is divided into 6 comarcas, or provinces that are represented by judicial circuits - Trás-os-Montes, Entre-Douro-e-Minho, Beira, Estremadura, Alentejo and the titular Kingdom of the Algarves. Galiza, however maintained its traditional provincial structure and Leão was reorganized into 4 comarcas after the Leonese noble revolt of 1486 - Astúrias, Leão, Baixo Leão [2] and Huelva. The comarcas would be presided over a superior magistrate of the king’s choice known as corregedores, exercising royal authority, both administrative and judicial, with a focus on appointing and confirming representatives by merit and not relying on the fidalgos, and the laws of the lay and ecclesiastical magnates and privileged municipalities were becoming superseded with the law of the crown. By the beginning of the 16th century, the corregedores would be a formidable figure, with his entourage and assistants accommodated in the towns where the court is held, and to show that the king’s law is supreme above everything else, despite the occasional grievances by the nobility and clergy of the increasing intrusiveness of an increasingly reliable and effective royal administration. The growing acceptance of royal law in Portugal can be seen in public notaries known as tabeliães, with an average of 1 per 250 people at the time.

- Standardizing Taxation -
Another critical part of centralizing the kingdom was increasing the crown’s capacity to levy taxes on a continuing basis. Before the taxation reforms, most of Portugal’s regular revenues came from the royal patrimony, with little difference between the monarch’s personal income and the receipts of the state. For the military and royal marriages, loans were used, but to repay, this required taxes. Traditionally, imposing taxes requires the consent of the great men of the kingdom, as well as the consent of the concelhos’ representatives in the cortes, and only lasts in a limited duration for a specific purpose. João II would eventually change this, as he knew he needed to have a flow of revenue in order to build tall and maintain the empire as it expands. In other words, he had the initiative to establish a system of regular and permanent taxation, like in France and England.

The Portuguese national taxation system consists of sisas and customs duties. Sisas were payable by all subjects without exception and imposed on any goods bought and sold, except for gold, silver, horses, arms and bread. In the 1481 cortes of Évora, João II made it clear that the impositions of sisas would be a permanent one, going hand-in-hand with the repeal of major tax exemptions for the nobility and clergy following the 1497 cortes of Lisbon.

Another major boost was customs duties, collected at customs houses at Portuguese ports and frontier crossings across the border with Castile. As goods began flowing in from Brazil, Guinea, Arabia, India, Malacca, Sunda and Celudão, it became transformed into the main source of revenue for the crown, and became more important than the sisas. As a consequence of trade and the increasing export of exotic goods back to Portugal, customs revenue was greatly boosted and became a signature part of the kingdom’s capitalist economy as part of the “Portuguese Miracle.”

[1] Instead of Infante Afonso dying in a horse-riding accident OTL, It would be the OTL Manuel I who gets the treatment instead.
[2] Lower Leon. This will be the TTL Portuguese name for the Extremadura region in Spain from now on.
 
Last edited:
Were these laws just for Portugal or for Leao and Galiza too?

Galicia and Leon OTL, even as part of the Kingdom of Castile had different parliaments, institutions, coins and laws (with the junta and the cortes respectively) until the modern era until Spain began to centralize. Under Portuguese control, they will still keep the same things but will be subject to centralization and increasing royal control to the point where the titles of the king of Galiza and Leão will end up as being nominal, honorific titles like the King of the Algarves by the end of the next century.

Shouldn't Portugal also get a larger part of Andalusia, as a reward for assistance to Castille in taking Grenada? Say Seville and Cadiz? Maybe even Gibraltar?

I agree that 40-50 millions is way too much, but maybe 30-35 millions could be possible?


Also, to answer a previous question, the Portuguese already had Gibraltar as one of their prizes following the War of Castilian Succession in 1477. Cadiz and Seville will remain part of Castile to buff them a bit in order for them to have a small colonial empire. And I think that population of 30-35 would be a bit more plausible, but it could be a few million more when Portugal takes control of coastal Morocco.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next three chapters will focus on more Portuguese discoveries, the creation of a standing army and the Granadine War and the conquest and integration of coastal Morocco into Metropolitan Portugal. Any suggestions/feedback on the last chapter?

Also, since there will be big butterflies in Spain and in the Habsburg domains (no Joanna the Mad, therefore no Charles V and Spanish Habsburgs), does anyone have ideas on how Castile, Aragon and Austria can play out?

My TTL idea is for a weakened Protestant Reformation and that the Habsburgs focus east and gain the Swedish (While Denmark-Norway stays Lutheran, Sweden will remain Catholic TTL and Gustav Trolle gets butterflied away, dynastic marriages between the Habsburgs and the Vasas lead to the merging into a cadet Swedish house of Habsburg-Vasa) and Polish thrones.
 
Last edited:
What I wanted to ask is, did Joao push these reforms trough all three Cortes or just in Portugal?
Because, as Croatian Diet said to Hungarian Diet: "Regnum regno non praescribit leges".

OTOH, about comarcas, I think that they are a bit premature, because if Leon and Galiza are separate kingdoms, then you can't have divided in two comarcas, or renamed/demoted to comarca (Galicia).
Maybe in say 100-150 years, after lots of tradition under same ruler, lots of cultural and economical integration and maybe after some big rebellion and when nobility there is crushed, you can maybe then do that, abolish their Fueros. Like in Nueva Planta decrees.
 
Last edited:
Another thing, I saw that you mentioned Klein Venedig suceeding ITTL in one of your first posts. But, Charles V gave them that privilege while being a Spanish King and German Emperor at the same time. ITTL, you will not have such situation. And I don't see why would Portuguese or Castillian kings give such concession/privilege to Welser family from Augsburg?
 
Hmm, about Castille and Aragon, I would like to see them separated. OTOH, I don't see why would Sweden remain Catholic? Maybe England...

There have been multiple threads before about Sweden remaining Catholic, as I am going for a weaker Protestant Reformation, and also because of my fascination with Gustavus Adolphus and the Caroleans (I'm a huge Sabaton fan as the Carolus Rex album was my entry point to the band).

What I wanted to ask is, did Joao push these reforms trough all three Cortes or just in Portugal?
Because, as Croatian Diet said to Hungarian Diet: "Regnum regno non praescribit leges".

OTOH, about comarcas, I think that they are a bit premature, because if Leon and Galiza are separate kingdoms, then you can't have divided in two comarcas, or renamed/demoted to comarca (Galicia).
Maybe in say 100-150 years, after lots of tradition under same ruler, lots of cultural and economical integration and maybe after some big rebellion and when nobility there is crushed, you can maybe then do that, abolish their Fueros. Like in Nueva Planta decrees.

I was thinking a bit too much with the centralization trend João II has been pushing and not pondering about the fueros until now with the sources I currently have. What I mean by with the Johannine Ordinances' effects in Galiza and Leão is the beginning of the slow process of integration of the laws of these two kingdoms into the main Portuguese law, until I would say around the first half of the 17th century. Galiza traditionally had 7 provinces and I was thinking about Leão would be divided into 4 comarcas since Portugal has 6 with the privileges of the fueros being kept at a lower level after a small noble revolt in around 1486 (Chapter 3). Probably there will be a big rebellion by the later half of the 16th century similar to the Fronde in France. I'll make edits on this one for this weekend.

Another thing, I saw that you mentioned Klein Venedig suceeding ITTL in one of your first posts. But, Charles V gave them that privilege while being a Spanish King and German Emperor at the same time. ITTL, you will not have such situation. And I don't see why would Portuguese or Castillian kings give such concession/privilege to Welser family from Augsburg?

I would say that there would still be a possibility of Klein-Venedig for TTL as a Habsburg possession, since the Spanish Habsburgs get butterflied and Austria now has most of the Netherlands TTL (and their rule over their lenient than OTL Spanish rule), I think the Austrian Habsburgs can fund the Welsers and develop Klein-Venedig, now that they have ports in the Netherlands.
 
The Spanish/Castillian King or Portuguese King will definitly not be amused having the Dutch/Germans settling his American possesions.
 
Last edited:
Top