Scurvy Cure Adopted in 1601

[Tony Jones]

I've recently been reading 'Nathaniels Nutmeg' and from it it appears that, among others, James Lancaster used lemon juice as a cure for scurvy in 1601. This was reported to the Admiralty, but nothing came of it, and the curative power of lemon juice was not widely known until 1747 and not adopted by the British navy until 1795. It is estimated that perhaps a million people died of scurvy between these times.

So, what if James Lancaster's report is not lost, but instead scurvy is essentially eliminated some 160 years earlier than in OTL? If nothing else European exploration and explotation of the world is going to be more effective as higher percentages (perhaps much higher percentages) of ships crews will survive, so more ships will return. Knowledge of the world will probably increase faster, and exploitation of far-flung resources, such as spices, occurs more quickly and fully. Perhaps Europe becomes richer, sooner. And this does not take into account the extra descendants of that million people killed by scurvey.

Perhaps all of this leads to a quicker industrial revolution? Or somewhere else? Almost certainly to a world much different to OTL...

 

[DuQuense]

Not sure that there is a Cure for Scurvy. Instead there are just Preventatives.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I've recently been reading 'Nathaniels Nutmeg' and from it it appears that, among others, James Lancaster used lemon juice as a cure for scurvy in 1601. This was reported to the Admiralty, but nothing came of it, and the curative power of lemon juice was not widely known until 1747 and not adopted by the British navy until 1795. It is estimated that perhaps a million people died of scurvy between these times.

So, what if James Lancaster's report is not lost, but instead scurvy is essentially eliminated some 160 years earlier than in OTL? If nothing else European exploration and explotation of the world is going to be more effective as higher percentages (perhaps much higher percentages) of ships crews will survive, so more ships will return. Knowledge of the world will probably increase faster, and exploitation of far-flung resources, such as spices, occurs more quickly and fully. Perhaps Europe becomes richer, sooner. And this does not take into account the extra descendants of that million people killed by scurvey.

Perhaps all of this leads to a quicker industrial revolution? Or somewhere else? Almost certainly to a world much different to OTL...

It's not quite that simple.

1) Where would the English get lemon juice in 1601? From Spain, with whom they were often at war?

2) There were LOTS of things that were associated with lack of scurvy. Everyone knew that when sailors got to land and were able to eat fresh food the scurvy went away. The problem was to find something that could be kept on board ships for years. Even lemon juice needs to be stored properly - some people, IIRC, did experiments with lemon juice on long voyages and found it ineffective. It turns out that it was not being stored correctly.

3) a better POD might be some wacko captain with a passion for sauerkraut, who makes his sailors all eat some....

4) there was a nasty class distinction that obscured the problem, too. Officers (especially captains) brought their own food on board, so were often spared the effects. The lower class seamen were fed nothing but boiled salted meat, hard tack and booze. Hardly a healthy diet.
But because it was the lower classes who were more susceptible than the officers, there was widely believed that it was because they were 'those people', not because of their diet. In fact, because one of the earlier symptoms of scurvy is listlessness/lack of energy, there was a serious confusion about cause and effect, and some officials believed and stated that "no hardworking sailor need fear scurvy".

5) the whole concept of a dietary deficiency disease is pretty modern, and so they looked at all KINDS of remedies.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Oops! You're Tony Jones, you know all this, I'm sure. Sorry.

Still think a better POD might be sauerkraut, that could be easily sourced from England, if they wanted to.

It's not quite that simple.

1) Where would the English get lemon juice in 1601? From Spain, with whom they were often at war?

2) There were LOTS of things that were associated with lack of scurvy. Everyone knew that when sailors got to land and were able to eat fresh food the scurvy went away. The problem was to find something that could be kept on board ships for years. Even lemon juice needs to be stored properly - some people, IIRC, did experiments with lemon juice on long voyages and found it ineffective. It turns out that it was not being stored correctly.

3) a better POD might be some wacko captain with a passion for sauerkraut, who makes his sailors all eat some....

4) there was a nasty class distinction that obscured the problem, too. Officers (especially captains) brought their own food on board, so were often spared the effects. The lower class seamen were fed nothing but boiled salted meat, hard tack and booze. Hardly a healthy diet.
But because it was the lower classes who were more susceptible than the officers, there was widely believed that it was because they were 'those people', not because of their diet. In fact, because one of the earlier symptoms of scurvy is listlessness/lack of energy, there was a serious confusion about cause and effect, and some officials believed and stated that "no hardworking sailor need fear scurvy".

5) the whole concept of a dietary deficiency disease is pretty modern, and so they looked at all KINDS of remedies.

 

[Mark E.]

Active vitamin C can be recovered from dried citrus juice and pulp, so it could be preserved for voyages. The technology to preserve the essential fruit components are no less formidable than the discovery of the importance of their use. Securing the fruit supply is still an obstacle.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Peripheral question: would Kim Chee work as well as kraut? I've batted around the idea of Chinese sailors using it or an equivalent in a TL. Perhaps it fits in with traditional medicine: high in Yang to cure the Yin disease of scurvy?

 

[AirshipArmada]

Some native Americans tribes used a tea made from willow leaves which helped prevent scurvy. I presume this tea could be preserved. The date of the European "discovery" of the tea could be pushed to the early 16th century.

Regardless of the POD: what are the effects?

 

[Mark E.]

Some native Americans tribes used a tea made from willow leaves which helped prevent scurvy. I presume this tea could be preserved. The date of the European "discovery" of the tea could be pushed to the early 16th century.

Regardless of the POD: what are the effects?

You would obviously enhance the health of mariners. In the longer term, you might accelerate other discoveries in nutrition science.

 

[A Random Person]

I have the perfect cure... ORANGE JUICE!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Some native Americans tribes used a tea made from willow leaves which helped prevent scurvy. I presume this tea could be preserved. The date of the European "discovery" of the tea could be pushed to the early 16th century.

Regardless of the POD: what are the effects?

I presume it couldn't. Most of the problems with anti-scorbutics is that the Vitamin C degrades very easily. Fresh green leaves, yes. Dried leaves, no.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I have the perfect cure... ORANGE JUICE!

Assuming, just for the sake of argument, that this was meant to be serious, how the FRIP do you keep orange juice for 6 months at sea!?

 

[DuQuense]

Some native Americans tribes used a tea made from willow leaves which helped prevent scurvy. I presume this tea could be preserved. The date of the European "discovery" of the tea could be pushed to the early 16th century.

Regardless of the POD: what are the effects?

I Think in England maybe Rose Tea.

Maybe more attention to Herbal Remedies. Or if the Idea of Diet deficiencies, as a Health problem, Maybe the Idea of Seaweed as a Cure for Rickets, may be accepted earlier.

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Assuming, just for the sake of argument, that this was meant to be serious, how the FRIP do you keep orange juice for 6 months at sea!?

Duuh...frozen concentrate!

 

[Analytical Engine]

Juan Sebastian Elcano was one of the few survivors of the Magellan expadition partly because he ate quince jelly on the voyage. (That was mentioned on a documentary a while ago).

 

[Julius Vogel]

I do remember reading a reasonably recent book on British Naval history that said that the guessed deathrate for scurvy was rather too high, and if your figure of 1 million applies only to Britain in the period 1600 to 1800 that would seem like it could be a valid criticism. How many sailors would be active at any one time in the UK during this period (say on an annual rate?)?

I can't imagine it to be that high, but with an average death rate (due to Scurvy only) of 5000 per year I can't imagine it to be a profession that would have much attraction to anyone who valued staying alive

 

[Tony Jones]

1) Where would the English get lemon juice in 1601? From Spain, with whom they were often at war?

A fair point. I don't know whether lemons will grow anywhere in Britain or not; if not this is indeed a problem. 'Lemon Wars' anyone?

2) There were LOTS of things that were associated with lack of scurvy. Everyone knew that when sailors got to land and were able to eat fresh food the scurvy went away. The problem was to find something that could be kept on board ships for years. Even lemon juice needs to be stored properly - some people, IIRC, did experiments with lemon juice on long voyages and found it ineffective. It turns out that it was not being stored correctly.

Well, my point here is that it worked for Lancaster, and he was a successful captain with a good reputation, so what he discovered could have spread more widely.

I know lemons can be pickled. Does this preserve the vitamin C content too?

3) a better POD might be some wacko captain with a passion for sauerkraut, who makes his sailors all eat some....

That would be funny, if nothing else, and not for the sailors!

4) there was a nasty class distinction that obscured the problem, too. Officers (especially captains) brought their own food on board, so were often spared the effects. The lower class seamen were fed nothing but boiled salted meat, hard tack and booze. Hardly a healthy diet. But because it was the lower classes who were more susceptible than the officers, there was widely believed that it was because they were 'those people', not because of their diet. In fact, because one of the earlier symptoms of scurvy is listlessness/lack of energy, there was a serious confusion about cause and effect, and some officials believed and stated that "no hardworking sailor need fear scurvy".

There may have been some class distinctions, but Lancaster, at least, could clearly see past them.

And given that he worked for the British East India Company, which was not run by the nobility, but by merchants to whom the bottom line was very important, I do find it strange that in OTL something that could have made their operations much more effective was not adopted. Thus this ATL.

Perhaps the PoD should be that the BEIC pays more attention to Lancaster’s discovery, even if the Navy does not, so that BEIC vessels start doing better, which eventually forces the Royal Navy to adopt something similar, if for no other reason than that no-one wants to sail with them as they’re that much more likely to die…

5) the whole concept of a dietary deficiency disease is pretty modern, and so they looked at all KINDS of remedies.

Actually, no. Looking at the Wikipedia article on scurvy:

In 1614 John Woodall (Surgeon General of the East India Company) published "The Surgion's Mate" as a handbook for apprentice surgeons aboard the company's ships. In it he described scurvy as resulting from a dietary deficiency. His recommendation for its cure was fresh food or, if not available, oranges, lemons, limes and tamarinds, or as a last resort, Oil of Vitriol (sulfuric acid).

So I can imagine the idea being not impossible 13 years earlier than this…

I can also imagine the idea of sailors being fed sulphuric acid as a scurvy cure not going down well, though, in more than one sense!

One other thought if, how much does suffering from scurvy affect a persons resistance to other diseases? I can imagine crews with less scurvy might be more resistant to tropical diseases, which is also going to affect how well the various EICs do.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Actually, no. Looking at the Wikipedia article on scurvy:

Keep looking: "In the Royal Navy's Arctic expeditions in the 19th century it was widely believed that scurvy was prevented by good hygiene on board ship, regular exercise, and maintaining the morale of the crew, rather than by a diet of fresh food, so that Navy expeditions continued to be plagued by scurvy even while fresh meat was well-known as a practical antiscorbutic among civilian whalers and explorers in the Arctic."

Yes, LOTS of people had glimmerings of understandings. But even as late as the 1800s, officialdom hadn't really clued in.

The knowledge that scurvy could be cured by a diet of fresh food was known for a long time. But just what, and why eluded people (especially officials trying to save money) for the longest time.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I know lemons can be pickled. Does this preserve the vitamin C content too?

Again, look at the Wiki article you cited: "Sauerkraut was the only vegetable food that retained a reasonable amount of ascorbic acid in a pickled state,"

No, it doesn't.

One of the real problems with Vitamin C is that it is so very easily destroyed. So people did try lemon juice and it didn't work - because they boiled it first to concentrate it, or stored it in the wrong containers or whatever. Serious trials were made with citrus that demonstrated that it was no use at all - because they'd killed the vitamin C.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

A fair point. I don't know whether lemons will grow anywhere in Britain or not; if not this is indeed a problem. 'Lemon Wars' anyone?

Look at the OTL citrus industry in Florida. Basically, anytime the temperature drops below freezing, there is major damage to the orchards. One device is smudge pots that warm the orchard that critical difference between -1 C and 0C. So Britain, in the Little Ice Age, is out, completely out.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

My guess for why the Admiralty finally caved in and prescribed lemon juice is that by then there were enough citrus plantations in the British Caribean that they didn't have to depend on enemy or foreign sources. You need a secure supply before you can mandate it.