Scottish/Scots-Irish out number the Irish in the USA

based off this:
you could get the Grand Master of the Orange Lodge of Scotland in full colors to lead the St. Patrick's Day Parade in Boston and no one would know, so go for it

so there are 36,278,332 Self-identified Irish-Americans, Scotch-Irish are 3,538,444 and Scottish Americans are 20 million or so, so what POD could bring numbers of Scottish/Scots-Irish up, and make being "Scottish" like being "Irish" is in American in OTL
 
First make Irish Americans less "cool" most White Americans have multiple ancestries but Irish is regarded as more interesting than Scottish so some people who are "more" Scottish still identify as Irish.
Second get people to realise that 62% of white Americans are descended from someone who was in the US pre 1776. That means that as Scots-Irish were about 10% of the population there are a minimum of 30 million Americans with some Scots-Irish ancestry probably much more. But just like English-Americans they are seriously under-counted due to people identifying with the most recent immigrant in their background (i.e. 1 Irish great-grand parent trumps 7 born citizen grand-parents).
There is also the factor that most people who identify as American are Scots-Irish or English so remove that option and you boost numbers even more.
However in reality the only way you could do really manage it is to switch around the timeline of immigration, with Irish-Irish coming a really long time ago and Scots-Irish coming more recently.
 
Second get people to realise that 62% of white Americans are descended from someone who was in the US pre 1776.

Does that mean 62% of White Americans have an ancestor from before 1776, or is the statistic that they have most of their ancestors from before 1776? Because if it's the latter I'd seriously question that.
 
No just one ancestor and obviously that includes people who are 1/32nd descended from a pre-1776 American to those in parts of Maine and Appalachia where its 31/32nds.
 
Last edited:
They probably do IOTL. Most Scotts-Irish descendants however self-identify as either American or Irish.
Which would explain the huge amount of American-Americans in the South, particularly AR, TN, KY, and WV, and the slim plurality of 'Irish' Americans who are protestant, despite the white population major centers of Irish immigration (Boston, New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Saint Louis, Buffalo, San Fransisco, and Cleveland) being overwhelmingly Catholic, to say nothing of Ireland itself.
 
Scots/Ulster types did seem to easily integrate into the colonial elites/mass all over the place without leaving much of a distinct identity.
Scots/Ulstermen/Protestant Irish supplied a lot of the early immigrants and colonial elites in NZ - several prime ministers etc - far more than the equivalent Irish/Irish Catholic migrants, yet the latter have managed to retain some sort of distinct identity (not say as strong as Irish Americans seem to be, but enough that it is obvious).

This isn't a bad thing by any length, as the Sectarian tradition is not one I would have liked to remain a part of NZ European culture. Apparently it did transfer over for a bit, as there were Orange Lodges and Irish Home Rule/Republican societies/agitation - but all of that seemed to die away by the early 20th century.

I myself do not really identify as Scots, Scots Irish, Irish, or Ulsterian, despite those being the points of origin of most of my ancestors, but then I don't really know any European NZers who would do so
 
As Aracnid says its a problem of identity. British Americans are sorely under-represented in lists of xxxx-Americans as they're usually the ones who just call themselves generic Americans.
That being said though they certainly will be fewer Scots-Irish than Irish in America- what with the Scots-Irish meaning a very small subgroup of the Irish compared to every other Irishman. The Scots-Irish dominated areas tended to be the richer areas of Ireland too so there was less incentive for them to emigrate.

OT but I find the Scots-Irish thing weird. You don't get them in the UK. Northern Irish people just call themselves Irish, or if they're particularly nationalist, only British.
 
That being said though they certainly will be fewer Scots-Irish than Irish in America- what with the Scots-Irish meaning a very small subgroup of the Irish compared to every other Irishman. The Scots-Irish dominated areas tended to be the richer areas of Ireland too so there was less incentive for them to emigrate.

Well, that's simplifying. During the famine, Ulster was outside the most affected regions, of course, but in the 18th century I think Ulster Protestants were the biggest migrants in Ireland. They had it as bad as anybody in lean years, but they also had an established tradition of emigration, having come to Ireland themselves in the last few generations.

OT but I find the Scots-Irish thing weird. You don't get them in the UK. Northern Irish people just call themselves Irish, or if they're particularly nationalist, only British.

Strictly the term means Ulster Scots (still a needlessly confusing one, though: I'd just say Ulster Scots): even leaving aside the "Anglo-Irish" proper, a lot of Ulster Presbyterian types are more English in origin It's not called Edinburghderry, after all! Scottish settlement was mostly in Antrim and Down.

But then, as Davy Crockett showed, that's mutable too.
 
OT but I find the Scots-Irish thing weird. You don't get them in the UK. Northern Irish people just call themselves Irish, or if they're particularly nationalist, only British.

From what I remember, the whole Scots-Irish distinction only came about in the US as a result of mass Catholic Irish immigration during the potato famine. Before the famine, the majority of Irish immigrants were Protestants, and integrated rather easily into the American society.

When the Irish Catholics arrived, and the nativist movement in America increased (know nothings, etc.) the Protestant Irish were very, very quick to say "We're not Irish! We're Scots-Irish! We're the good hardworking Scots-Irish, not like those lazy papist paddies." :rolleyes:

The Scots-Irish identity was emphasized to separate the earlier Protestant Irish immigrants from the later Catholic ones, in response to persecution, racism, etc.
 
Second get people to realise that 62% of white Americans are descended from someone who was in the US pre 1776.

That number describes my family almost perfectly. Sixty-two percent of my ancestors were in America pre-1776 including one man from County Cavan who was bonked on the head by a press gang in London in the year 1776 but jumped ship as soon as he got to America and stayed.
 
From what I remember, the whole Scots-Irish distinction only came about in the US as a result of mass Catholic Irish immigration during the potato famine. Before the famine, the majority of Irish immigrants were Protestants, and integrated rather easily into the American society.

When the Irish Catholics arrived, and the nativist movement in America increased (know nothings, etc.) the Protestant Irish were very, very quick to say "We're not Irish! We're Scots-Irish! We're the good hardworking Scots-Irish, not like those lazy papist paddies." :rolleyes:

The Scots-Irish identity was emphasized to separate the earlier Protestant Irish immigrants from the later Catholic ones, in response to persecution, racism, etc.

Right. And self-identity as Scotch-Irish almost vanished when it became okay, even cool, to have Irish ancestors. Mostly, the Scotch-Irish-Americans decided to call themselves "Americans" in the polls. Humorously they did so in such a way that a map of American ancestries will have the self proclaimed "Americans" be located in exactly the geographic areas you'd expect there to be a bunch of people who are ashamed to admit their ancestors came from socialist Europe.
 
Top