Scottish Empire?

bard32

Banned
Inspired by Finnish Empire? There's a book called How the Scots Created the Modern World. Its premise is that the Scots, (of said nationality I happen to
be,) are responsible for creating the world as know it. From the steam engine,
James Watt, (not be confused with Ronald Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior of the same name,) to the tea bag, (Thomas J. Lipton.) Did I also
mention the mackintosh, the raincoat? and macadam? the famous road surfacing agent. Would it have been possible for Presbyterian Scotland, as
opposed to Anglican England, becoming the capital of a vast overseas empire?
According to program that aired on TLC a few years ago, England had sabotaged Scotland's imperial ambitions between 1607 and 1707.
 
I've had this TL idea in the back of my head that probably won't go anywhere where Scotland and England and Ireland all fought each other in a bloody war at the end of the Mediveal Period. The three seperate nations and crowns work together to crete what is essenitqallly the world's first super state (Think EU). Economically they act as one nation and when the Islands are in trouble they act as one nation for defense. They even share the same currency and English is their Linga Franca.

However they are politically different with different laws, royal families, etc. They all go about creating Empires and the such. I believe I had the English still in India and Australia and random Caribbean and African colonies but the Irish do most of the 13 colonies and Asia and the Scottish do Canada and South Africa.
 

bard32

Banned
I've had this TL idea in the back of my head that probably won't go anywhere where Scotland and England and Ireland all fought each other in a bloody war at the end of the Mediveal Period. The three seperate nations and crowns work together to crete what is essenitqallly the world's first super state (Think EU). Economically they act as one nation and when the Islands are in trouble they act as one nation for defense. They even share the same currency and English is their Linga Franca.

However they are politically different with different laws, royal families, etc. They all go about creating Empires and the such. I believe I had the English still in India and Australia and random Caribbean and African colonies but the Irish do most of the 13 colonies and Asia and the Scottish do Canada and South Africa.

The Scottish royal family, and briefly, the English royal family, were the Stewarts. Where does the name come from? Remember The Lord of the Rings? The ruler of Gondor, in the kings' stead, was the Steward of Gondor.
That's where the name Stewart comes from. The Stewarts were originally the stewards, attendants, of the previous Scottish royal family, the MacAlpines. Why don't you post it here? I'm sure we'd read it.
 
The Scottish royal family, and briefly, the English royal family, were the Stewarts. Where does the name come from? Remember The Lord of the Rings? The ruler of Gondor, in the kings' stead, was the Steward of Gondor.
That's where the name Stewart comes from. The Stewarts were originally the stewards, attendants, of the previous Scottish royal family, the MacAlpines. Why don't you post it here? I'm sure we'd read it.

Because its not even in writing, just in my head:D

Maybe after United States of Ameriwank is finished but thats a ways away and I still need to add more to the Super ISOT which was put on hold like 3 months ago.
 
A true Scottish Empire is quite ASB. Its up there with a Welsh empire.
However for the English to take over Scotland and then make something out of it (as they pretty much did IOTL)...Perhaps.
You'd need to increase its borders though to cover the whole of old Northumbria at the very least.
And then you'd have to do something about the other English kingdom too. Maybe HREise it with lots of petty statelets and city states.
 

bard32

Banned
A true Scottish Empire is quite ASB. Its up there with a Welsh empire.
However for the English to take over Scotland and then make something out of it (as they pretty much did IOTL)...Perhaps.
You'd need to increase its borders though to cover the whole of old Northumbria at the very least.
And then you'd have to do something about the other English kingdom too. Maybe HREise it with lots of petty statelets and city states.

It almost happened. England and Scotland were fighting over the same territories. Scotland accused England of sabotaging its efforts to establish an
overseas trading empire.
 
IOTL, the Scottish attempt to create an overseas empire with the colony at Darien ended in catastrophic failure. This in turn lead to the political and economic joining of the two countries. Part of the package was that England would pay off the huge losses incurred by this failed adventure.

As I understand it (and I stand to be corrected by someone who has more than my fairly meagre knowledge of the whole affair) the main reason for the failure of Darien was that it was situated very close to the Spanish gold route from the Americas to Spain. The Spanish were not going to tolerate this and kept attacking Darien until the colony became untenable. The colonists looked to the local RN for support, but england had just finished one of its many wars with Spain and was in no mood to antagonise the Spanish just to help the Scots.

Perhaps a different placement of the colony might have resulted in a generally more successful Scottish colony program which might have invigorated Scotland enough that she might have retained political and economic independence.

Although, it has to be said that the Scots were involved heavily in the British Empire, so called because it required the english, welsh, irish and scots all working together to build and run such a mighty construct:D
 
For the first two or three posts, I was reading Scottish as Swedish for some reason (I didn't sleep much last night...)

Let me tell you, I was pretty psyched when people started taking about Sweden and England forming a United Kingdom. The Islands could rejoin greater Scandinavia, as they've got plenty of linguistic/cultural heritage (knowledge, anyone?).
 
Perhaps a different placement of the colony might have resulted in a generally more successful Scottish colony program which might have invigorated Scotland enough that she might have retained political and economic independence.
Southern Africa would be a good location, If one adds Nova Scotia to it, you have the start of an empire. A good place to add to it would be India and maybe something in China.
 
Actually, the Scots in OTL got to RUN a world spanning empire, while letting the English pay the costs:) Just look at the names of the administators of the Empire!
 
It almost happened. England and Scotland were fighting over the same territories. Scotland accused England of sabotaging its efforts to establish an
overseas trading empire.

It did not "almost happen". Darien was a disaster that economically wiped out Scotland. Take a look at the logistics and the size of operation and you'll realise that if that could drain Scotland of capital, then it wasn't a very rich country to begin with.

There seems little doubt that the Crown did sabotage it, but that doesn't mean that it would have spawned a huge empire otherwise. For one thing, the Spanish were more than capable of wiping out the enterprise, whatever the English did.

An independent Scotland would perhaps have been able to make a small empire - one or two north American colonies that would ultimately have been swallowed up by England or France (like New Holland, New Sweden), and maybe one or two trading posts and suchlike elsewhere. Nothing particularly impressive.

Dathi is right - Scotland got a world-beating empire, the British one, largely run and developed by Scots, and which made Scotland far richer than she would ever have been otherwise. There is no better ATL that I can think of.
 
Henry IX Stuart: 1595- ? (1612+)

What about having Henry Prince of Wales not die of
typhus in 1612, living to maturity, treating his fellow
Scots better, and insuring a more equitable distribution
of power within the mainland British Isles?

Craig
 
It did not "almost happen". Darien was a disaster that economically wiped out Scotland. Take a look at the logistics and the size of operation and you'll realise that if that could drain Scotland of capital, then it wasn't a very rich country to begin with.

There seems little doubt that the Crown did sabotage it, but that doesn't mean that it would have spawned a huge empire otherwise. For one thing, the Spanish were more than capable of wiping out the enterprise, whatever the English did.

Dathi is right - Scotland got a world-beating empire, the British one, largely run and developed by Scots, and which made Scotland far richer than she would ever have been otherwise. There is no better ATL that I can think of.

I can think of one.

Instead of Darien, Scotland invests the money in trading with the gold coast, which succeeds. Scotland gets a modest profit from this.

The push for a "United Kindom" of some kind is there, but Sotland a) hasn't lots all of its capita and b) can negotiate for better terms.So you get a more federal arrangement, which serves as a model for the American colonies.

Meanwhile, this more prosperous Scotland serves as a testing ground for John Law's ideas on currency.

Ultimately, the Sun never sets on the Anglo-Scottish-American Empire.
 
I can think of one.

Instead of Darien, Scotland invests the money in trading with the gold coast, which succeeds. Scotland gets a modest profit from this.

The push for a "United Kindom" of some kind is there, but Sotland a) hasn't lots all of its capita and b) can negotiate for better terms.So you get a more federal arrangement, which serves as a model for the American colonies.

Meanwhile, this more prosperous Scotland serves as a testing ground for John Law's ideas on currency.

Ultimately, the Sun never sets on the Anglo-Scottish-American Empire.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm sure something would have gone wrong with it, though. I don't know how familiar you are with Scotland's history, but we're pretty good at messing things up and squabbling with each other. So I'm sure we'd have found a way to drop the ball! Still, could make a good ATL for someone.
 
Something that happens in my AAR (has been done on this forum): Scotland wins at Flodden Field. If the battle went far enough in Scotland's favor, they could have become more powerful against England.
 
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