Scotland-Norway

Alright, this is just a quick thought I had, but I figure, since radical_neuteral can post his random thoughts, I should be able to as well.

The idea I'm thinking of is a complete collapse of the Kalmar Union, resulting in an independent Norway, hopefully sometime in the early 1530s. Dynastic relations being changed, in 1601 the King of Scotland, James VI (though likely a different guy), ascends to the throne of Norway. Looking at modern population alone, Scotland would likely be the more powerful of the two. How would England and the other Scandinavian states react?
 
Think about religion: If Norway becomes Protestant as OTL, and the Scottish kings are Catholic, that'll be a little problem...
 
I read once that Reformation had to be imposed in Norway. People there were not against Roman Church in the beginning. Maybe a catholic revolt against Denmark could lead to a union with a catholic Scotland.
 

Oddball

Monthly Donor
Yepp thats true. The norwegians were not actualy thrilled about the protestant faith at that time.
 
Probably the easiest way to make a Scottish-Norwegian union is to have Margret Maid of Norway born a boy (call him say prince Ruben).
Prince Ruben is directly in line to the thrones of both Scotland and Norway.
I know it's not exactly what you were looking for but it would work
 
Well only two years later he became King of England as James I and IIRC he was pretty much the decided on successor to Elizabeth well before her death. If that still happens then I guess the union of the crowns has the Crown of Ireland and Crown of England added to those of Scotland and Norway in a four way personal union. In effect we'll be getting a situation similar to that of Great Britain and Hanover a hundred and ten years earlier which could be interesting. Knock-on effects like what happens with Norway if the English civil war kicks off or assuming it's not butterflied away during the Napoleonic wars being the two most obvious ones that spring to mind, but just how it's integrated and ruled along with local issues would be fun to look at in and of themselves.
 
I am guessing Sweden would bite off Jämtland, Särna, Idre and Bohuslän as soon as possible. Do Scotland at this time have a substantial navy to fight with?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Think about religion: If Norway becomes Protestant as OTL, and the Scottish kings are Catholic, that'll be a little problem...

The Norwegian was rather stubborn Catholics in OTL, of course the Danish king dealt rather easy with it, he ensured that all new Norwegian clergy had to have a theological education from Copenhagen University. This meant over two generation he replaced the Catholic clergy with Lutherans.
 
Christian Tyrant

In 1531 he sailed to regain his throne, but storm scattered his fleet. He was captured several months later at Oslo.

Imagine that Christian II manages to hold Norway, but not recapture Denmark. How would he go about finding allies? The Emperor, sure, had hosted him in exile and given him his fleet... He will die natural causes in 1559 (as per OTL).

What is his family in 1532, and what are prospects for marriage alliances? Scotland has Catholic James V to 1542 and then also Catholic Mary of Guise to 1560...
 

Valdemar II

Banned
In 1531 he sailed to regain his throne, but storm scattered his fleet. He was captured several months later at Oslo.

Imagine that Christian II manages to hold Norway, but not recapture Denmark. How would he go about finding allies? The Emperor, sure, had hosted him in exile and given him his fleet... He will die natural causes in 1559 (as per OTL).

What is his family in 1532, and what are prospects for marriage alliances? Scotland has Catholic James V to 1542 and then also Catholic Mary of Guise to 1560...

He's widower with two surviving female children (in their early teens). He's the legitime claimant to the Norwegian throne as it is inheritable, while the Danish are electable as such his uncles claimare legitime there. Denmark hasn't converted yet at this point, but Christian converted himself because of Protestantism popularity in Denmark. But let imagine he doesn't convert, because he need the Emperors support. With money from the emperor he succed in gaining control of Norway but fail in Denmark. Christian and Frederik reach a agrement where they split Denmark-Norway up, Christian get Norway and Frederik Denmark, Gotland and Schleswig-Holstein.
Christian remarry and decide to marry his oldest daugther Dorothea to James V of Scotland after his wife dies. But while James get two sons with Dorethea, Christians doesn't get any male children. With James early death Dorethea become regent for her eldest son until he reach majority, she keep a close relationship with her father. Her father death result in her eldest son inheriate Norway, which are the beginning of the Scottish-Norwegian Union.
 
He's widower with two surviving female children (in their early teens). He's the legitime claimant to the Norwegian throne as it is inheritable, while the Danish are electable as such his uncles claimare legitime there. Denmark hasn't converted yet at this point, but Christian converted himself because of Protestantism popularity in Denmark. But let imagine he doesn't convert, because he need the Emperors support.
I read that he converted to Protestantism some time in his exile in 1520-s, but then returned to Catholicism because he needed emperor´s support, and was Catholic by his Norway expedition in 1531.

His major supporter in Norway was the Catholic archbishop of Trondheim. So they stay Catholic.
With money from the emperor he succed in gaining control of Norway but fail in Denmark. Christian and Frederik reach a agrement where they split Denmark-Norway up, Christian get Norway and Frederik Denmark, Gotland and Schleswig-Holstein.
Christian remarry and decide to marry his oldest daugther Dorothea to James V of Scotland after his wife dies.
Christian´s daughters are Dorothea, born 10th of November 1520, and Christina, born November 1521.

OTL, they married Christina in 1534 (age 12) to Francesco Sforza of Milan, and Dorothea in 1535 (age 14) to Frederick of Pfalz.

Christian II-s victory in Norway is a PoD in 1532 which butterflies these marriages away because his daughters are now more attractive heiresses.

James V was an eligible bachelor at the time. He was finally married age 24, on 1st of January 1537, to Madeleine of Valois.

Could we butterfly this away, so that James marries Dorothea of Norway in the first place, in 1536?

Any comments about the politics of the marriage negotations? How would Henry VIII react to Scotland allying with Norway, and thereby also Spain, rather than France as per OTL?
But while James get two sons with Dorethea, Christians doesn't get any male children. With James early death Dorethea become regent for her eldest son until he reach majority, she keep a close relationship with her father. Her father death result in her eldest son inheriate Norway, which are the beginning of the Scottish-Norwegian Union.
 
Probably the easiest way to make a Scottish-Norwegian union is to have Margret Maid of Norway born a boy (call him say prince Ruben).
Prince Ruben is directly in line to the thrones of both Scotland and Norway.
I know it's not exactly what you were looking for but it would work

Why would this even be needed? IOTL, Margaret was Queen of Scotland as a woman (given her age, as a girl). Did Norway not allow women to inherit the crown?
 
Why would this even be needed? IOTL, Margaret was Queen of Scotland as a woman (given her age, as a girl). Did Norway not allow women to inherit the crown?
Margrethe I had claimed to be Queen Regnant. But she had promised to appoint a king, although in case of Norway, she would remain a coregent. She did promptly proclaim Boguslaw of Pomerania.

The matters could get thorny in 1559. Dorothea is just Queen Consort in Scotland, Queen Dowager after 1542, and Queen Regent during the minority of her offspring. But when Christian II dies leaving his daughter (Dorothea would live till 1580) and grandson/s, would Dorothea be Queen Regnant of Norway in her lifetime, or would her son be King of Norway?

There is a practical issue, though. 1559 is also roughly the time her child would come of age and no longer need a Regent. Thus Queen Dorothea could sail to govern Norway, and this would be more conveniently done in her own name rather than as a representative of her son.
 
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