Schlessienlied:Traitors to Christendom

Schlesienlied:Traitors to Christendom

Schlessienlied: Traitors to Christendom

The marriage alliance between France and Poland

The marriage alliance between France and Poland

On his coronation at 1674 John III Sobieski wanted an alliance with France and the Ottomans against the Austrian Empire and Brandenburg in order to gain both Silesia and Prussia, even if knowing that he would have problems in his borders, he decided to go further of the alliance and marry his son, James Louis Sobieski to Marie Louise of Orleans and to marry his daughter, Teresa Teofila to Louis, Le Grand Dauphin.

On 1679, Marie Louise of Orleans marries James Louis Sobieski after he marries her he sees his sister Teresa Teofila the last time not as a Dauphine as she is to be married to Louis, Le Grand Dauphin, she left with her retinue to France, that is the last time he saw her not as a Dauphine or a Queen.

The marriage between Le Grand Dauphin and Teresa Teofila happened on 1685, the two marriage would be the start of the alliance between France and Poland, and she adopted the name Therese Theophile as the Dauphine of France and future queen.

It was said that the alliance of Poland and France wrecked Christendom.

The marriage to Marie Louise of Orleans made the Sobieski Family directly related to the two Kings of Poland and Bohemia namely Wenceslaus II and Wenceslaus III, this is used as a propaganda to legitimize their hold in Poland.
 
Last edited:
Two lives of Mary of Modena
On 1679, the beautiful Mary of Modena married the King of Spain, Charles II however, Charles II of Spain died a week after the wedding, she was said to be devastated of the death but the death was a blessing in disguise to her, the death caused the throne of Spain to pass to the Austrian Habsburgs with Maria Antonia of Austria as Queen of Spain.


On 1682, Sophia Dorothea of Celle married George I of Hanover, however she died a few months due to complications of miscarriage.

On 1683, George I of Hanover went to Italy to go in a vacation where he can reflect about the tragedy that happened to him this is where he met Mary of Modena.

On 1684 he wanted to marry Mary of Modena since this time he could not succeed to Great Britain since, Anne of Great Britain has a healthy daughter named Mary and would be expected to succeed to the throne of Great Britain and Anne of Great Britain is expecting another child, the marriage finally happened on 1688[1], the marriage caused the D[FONT=&quot]’[/FONT]Este/Welf family to have a stake in the future unification of Italy, but it has been agreed that the younger brother of George I of Hanover would inherit his domains on his death but his sons or descendants would later inherit Modena.



[1] The marriage is delayed due to him being the heir at that time to Great Britain.
 
Last edited:
Schlessienlied: Traitors to Christendom

The marriage alliance between France and Poland

The marriage alliance between France and Poland

On his coronation at 1674 John III Sobieski wanted an alliance with France and the Ottomans against the Austrian Empire and Brandenburg in order to gain both Silesia and Prussia, even if knowing that he would have problems in his borders, he decided to go further of the alliance and marry his son, James Louis Sobieski to Marie Louise of Orleans and to marry his daughter, Teresa Teofila to Louis, Le Grand Dauphin.

On 1679, Marie Louise of Orleans marries James Louis Sobieski after he marries her he sees his sister Teresa Teofila the last time not as a Dauphine as she is to be married to Louis, Le Grand Dauphin, she left with her retinue to France, that is the last time he saw her not as a Dauphine or a Queen.

The marriage between Le Grand Dauphin and Teresa Teofila happened on 1685, the two marriage would be the start of the alliance between France and Poland, and she adopted the name Therese Theophile as the Dauphine of France and future queen.

It was said that the alliance of Poland and France wrecked Christendom and fractured the Church after the defeat of Austria and Spain in the Austrian-Ottoman War.

The marriage to Marie Louise of Orleans made the Sobieski Family directly related to the two Kings of Poland and Bohemia namely Wenceslaus II and Wenceslaus III, this is used as a propaganda to legitimize their hold in Poland.

The Grand Dauphin's first wife (and mother of his three sons), Maria Anna of Bavaria, did not die till 1690 and she had married him in 1680, so I don't think any butterflies such as the one in which Teresa Teofila does not die young will affect them to enable them to marry in 1685.

Marie Louise of Orleans (OTL Queen of Spain) apparently of appendicitis in 1689. She still might in any other time line.

I like the concept of a Sobeiski/Bourbon alliance and keeping the Sobieski as Kings of Poland (perhaps making the monarchy hereditary) backed by French power. I'm all for any TL that doesn't result in the partition of Poland. I'm not sure these are the participants that can make that happen.

How about this. La Grand Dauphine marries the Teresa Teofila after 1690 and they have a son (who would be fourth in line for the throne of France and a contender as heir to Philip of Spain as well).

Augustus the Strong of Saxoy still becomes King of Poland after Jan III dies in 1696 (so the Saxon house still converts to Catholicism) but after his death the now thirty-to-forty year old son (or one of them, since if the smallpox hits the French royal family in this TL too in the same way it would be the fourth son of the Grand Dauphin who becomes Regent in 1715 and not the Duke of Orleans) of the Grand Dauphin and Teresa Teofila makes a play for the Polish throne and wins thanks to the French army. So a Bourbon prince becomes King of Poland, as well as France and Spain, Naples, Sicily, Parma.


- As for the Mary of Modena, thing...it's never going to happen unless he's a Catholic. This was a woman who wanted to join a convent and had to be persuaded by the Pope himself to marry the Catholic James II so she could advance the faith in England (literally that was the argument that convinced her). She's not going to marry a Protestant. If he converts (which he could since he's not going to get Britain anyway in this TL) to marry maybe but otherwise...no. She won't go for it, and since many who met her held her in awe and high esteem no one will force her (she would have a large personal dowry - which in OTL William and Mary never returned - as well so she doesn't need the cash).
 
Last edited:
The Grand Dauphin's first wife (and mother of his three sons), Maria Anna of Bavaria, did not die till 1690 and she had married him in 1680, so I don't think any butterflies such as the one in which Teresa Teofila does not die young will affect them to enable them to marry in 1685.

Marie Louise of Orleans (OTL Queen of Spain) apparently of appendicitis in 1689. She still might in any other time line.

I like the concept of a Sobeiski/Bourbon alliance and keeping the Sobieski as Kings of Poland (perhaps making the monarchy hereditary) backed by French power. I'm all for any TL that doesn't result in the partition of Poland. I'm not sure these are the participants that can make that happen.

How about this. La Grand Dauphine marries the Teresa Teofila after 1690 and they have a son (who would be fourth in line for the throne of France and a contender as heir to Philip of Spain as well).

Augustus the Strong of Saxoy still becomes King of Poland after Jan III dies in 1696 (so the Saxon house still converts to Catholicism) but after his death the now thirty-to-forty year old son (or one of them, since if the smallpox hits the French royal family in this TL too in the same way it would be the fourth son of the Grand Dauphin who becomes Regent in 1715 and not the Duke of Orleans) of the Grand Dauphin and Teresa Teofila makes a play for the Polish throne and wins thanks to the French army. So a Bourbon prince becomes King of Poland, as well as France and Spain, Naples, Sicily, Parma.


- As for the Mary of Modena, thing...it's never going to happen unless he's a Catholic. This was a woman who wanted to join a convent and had to be persuaded by the Pope himself to marry the Catholic James II so she could advance the faith in England (literally that was the argument that convinced her). She's not going to marry a Protestant. If he converts (which he could since he's not going to get Britain anyway in this TL) to marry maybe but otherwise...no. She won't go for it, and since many who met her held her in awe and high esteem no one will force her (she would have a large personal dowry - which in OTL William and Mary never returned - as well so she doesn't need the cash).

In this TL Sobieskis were strengthened because they have a claim to make them hereditary Kings of Poland - They are now descendants of Wenceslaus I of Poland, thanks to Marie Louise of Orleans via Bonne of Bohemia this the same as Henri III of France :D, I think the name Wenceslaus would be the name of the son of Marie Louise of Orleans, Maria Anna of Bavaria is free to marry, she could marry her cousin the elector of Bavaria instead.

For Mary of Modena, she fell in love with the OTL King of Great Britain, they loved each other in this TL forsaking her principles.
 
Last edited:
In this TL Sobieskis were strengthened because they have a claim to make them hereditary Kings of Poland - They are now descendants of Wenceslaus I of Poland, thanks to Marie Louise of Orleans via Bonne of Bohemia this the same as Henri III of France :D, I think the name Wenceslaus would be the name of the son of Marie Louise of Orleans, Maria Anna of Bavaria is free to marry, she could marry her cousin the elector of Bavaria instead.

For Mary of Modena, she fell in love with the OTL King of Great Britain, they loved each other in this TL forsaking her principles.

Louis XIV would not wait till his only son and heir is 24 (the Grand Dauphin's age in 1685) to marry him off.

To make this TL work you need to give Mary of Modena a personality transplant. She stuck to her principles to her death and transposed them onto her children (which is why James Francis Edward would never abjure Catholicism even for a crown). Even if you would have her marry the Protestant George of Hanover, SHE'S not going to give up her faith no matter what (which will be a problem in heavily Lutheran Hanover) and it is highly doubtful she would want to raise her children Protestants as well. Mary of Modena is not an unknown in history. She had very strong principles and religious faith, that's partly the reason she was so admired in the French court.
 
The Austrian-Ottoman War
On 1683, the war between Austria and the Ottomans, a few months after that after John III Sobieski heard of that war, the King of France, Louis XIV, John III Sobieski and Maximillian II Emannuel, the Elector of Bavaria declared war on both Austria and Brandenburg-Prussia since they want to take advantage of the Ottoman War against Austria and they are allied with the Ottomans, there is another one that declared a war against Prussia and it is Sweden ruled by Charles XI.

After the victories of the Ottomans in Vienna against the Papal, Spanish and Austrian troops in the later part of 1683 in this time the Habsburgs are also ruling Spain and Naples, the troops of John III Sobieski occupied Silesia and another of his troops led by one of his subordinates occupied Prussia, the Polish people of Silesia were happy about the Occupation and welcomed it but the Germans were not, this would lead in the partition of Silesia in Oder and Nysa Klodzko and in this time Maximillian II Emannuel occupied Bohemia and Moravia and Louis XIV Occupied the Spanish Netherlands.

In this time Maximilian II Emannuel[FONT=&quot]’[/FONT]s wife Maria Anna of Bavaria had died of childbirth with her child even though she had earlier provided a son to him named Louis, he would later marry Theresa Kunegunda Sobieska.

The war resulted in the defeat of Austria,Spain and Prussia against the entente of Poland, France, Bavaria, Sweden and the Ottomans.

Pope Innocent XI excommunicated the rulers of Poland, Bavaria and France that warred against Austria and Spain after their attack on Austria.


Note:
I am not proficient in writing wars so I will keep it concise.

In this case who would Elisabetta Farnese would marry, I think the son between George I of Hanover and Mary of Modena would marry Elisabetta Farnese, but this would unite the Hanoverian and the Portuguese Lancastrian Claims, Welf Portugal or Italy, anyone?

I have a wild thought of Maximillian II Emannuel getting Slovakia, basically Czecho-Slovakia-Bavaria but I think it is better if the Ottomans get whole of Hungary.




Who would Maria Antonia of Spain marry?
 
Last edited:
The Austrian-Ottoman War
On 1683, the war between Austria and the Ottomans, a few months after that after John III Sobieski heard of that war, the King of France, Louis XIV, John III Sobieski and Maximillian II Emannuel, the Elector of Bavaria declared war on both Austria and Brandenburg-Prussia since they want to take advantage of the Ottoman War against Austria and they are allied with the Ottomans, there is another one that declared a war against Prussia and it is Sweden ruled by Charles XI.

After the victories of the Ottomans in Vienna against the Papal, Spanish and Austrian troops in the later part of 1683 in this time the Habsburgs are also ruling Spain and Naples, the troops of John III Sobieski occupied Silesia and another of his troops led by one of his subordinates occupied Prussia, the Polish people of Silesia were happy about the Occupation and welcomed it but the Germans were not, this would lead in the partition of Silesia in Oder and Nysa Klodzko and in this time Maximillian II Emannuel occupied Bohemia and Moravia.

In this time Maximilian II Emannuel[FONT=&quot]’[/FONT]s wife Maria Anna of Bavaria had died of childbirth with her child even though she had earlier provided a son to him named Louis, he would later marry Theresa Kunegunda Sobieska.

The war resulted in the defeat of Austria,Spain and Prussia against the entente of Poland, France, Bavaria, Sweden and the Ottomans.

Pope Innocent XI excommunicated the rulers of Poland, Bavaria and France that warred against Austria and Spain after their attack on Austria.

Note:
I am not proficient in writing wars so I will keep it concise.

In this case who would Elisabetta Farnese would marry, I think the son between George I of Hanover and Mary of Modena would marry Elisabetta Farnese, but this would unite the Hanoverian and the Portuguese Lancastrian Claims, Welf Portugal or Italy, anyone?

I have a wild thought of Maximillian II Emannuel getting Slovakia, basically Czecho-Slovakia-Bavaria but I think it is better if the Ottomans get whole of Hungary.




Who would Maria Antonia of Spain marry?

Wait a minute now George of Hanover and Mary of Modena have a son that marries the heiress of Parma? I'm confused. Is the House of Hanover still going to be Protestant? First the Head of the House marries ultra-catholic Mary of Modena and now the Farnese family allows their heiress to marry George of Hanover's son? Unless the line goes Catholic, which has major ramifications for Brunswick/Hanover, this is not realistic.
 
Wait a minute now George of Hanover and Mary of Modena have a son that marries the heiress of Parma? I'm confused. Is the House of Hanover still going to be Protestant? First the Head of the House marries ultra-catholic Mary of Modena and now the Farnese family allows their heiress to marry George of Hanover's son? Unless the line goes Catholic, which has major ramifications for Brunswick/Hanover, this is not realistic.


It is the brother of George I of Hanover that would inherit Hanover after the death of George I of Hanover, I think in this TL it would be likely for the Welfs to unite Italy.
 
Treaty of Utrecht
The treaty of Utrecht was signed in 1685 in order to end the war and these are the terms.

-France gets the Spanish Netherlands.
-Poland gets Prussia.
-Silesia is partitioned in Ethnic lines, the Ethnic Polish regions which is Silesia North of Oder and East of Nysa Klodzko are returned to Poland with the exception of Opava while Bohemia would retain the rest.
-Brandenburg held Pomerania is ceded to Sweden
-Bavaria gets Bohemia, Moravia, the remnant of Silesia and Tyrol
-Ottomans get Hungary from the Habsburgs.
-Ottomans get the Spanish East Indies.
-Savoy is given Lombardy(Duchy of Milan).
-Maria Antonia of Spain marries Francis Louis Prince of Conti.

Because of the War and the treaty the Entente that defeated Austria and Spain had been called the Traitors of Christendom.

Due to the Treaty, Ottomans and the Bourbons are at their height due to the Bourbons ruling France and Spain but on separate lines for the Ottomans it is due to their gains in the treaty.

Savoy has a claim to Milan due to them being descendants of the French claimants of Milan that is why they got it (I initially wanted them to gain Naples and Sicily as well but I think it would wank them more).

This treaty would end the power of both Austria and Prussia in Germany leading to the Bavarian Unification of Germany later on.


 
Last edited:
Sorry to start by throwing stones, but the Grand Dauphin was betrothed to Maria Anna of Bavaria since they were six, AFAIK, it was all but a done deal that they would be married in due course. Now, if Maria Anna were to die before 1680, which is possible since she was in bad health due to lung problems (I think), then the carousel would be on the move again and another dauphine will have to be found.

As to Catholics in Hannover, not too implausible, just not likely for Georg. His mother complained of him having such a thick crust around his brains that she challenged anyone to discover what was in them. His uncle - Johann Friedrich - was Catholic, married to a Catholic and had four Catholic daughters (two being the Holy Roman Empress and the duchess of Modena, respectively).

But I agree on Mary of Modena: she was a pious unambitious Catholic girl from Italy who when told she would marry (someone other than Christ) burst into tears, and when told about wedding the duke of York, confessed she did not even know where England was! (though that last part could be apocryphal).
 
I've an idea for you that can perhaps make this plausible. Mary of Modena (a pro-French candidate) marries the Francophile Johann Friedrich of Brunswick because he can't marry Benedikte Henriette of the Palatinate as OTL (for whatever reason). They have kids - amongst whom are a daughter, who then marries George I. That way Georgie still gets a double-Welf bride, and still marries a cousin.
 
I've an idea for you that can perhaps make this plausible. Mary of Modena (a pro-French candidate) marries the Francophile Johann Friedrich of Brunswick because he can't marry Benedikte Henriette of the Palatinate as OTL (for whatever reason). They have kids - amongst whom are a daughter, who then marries George I. That way Georgie still gets a double-Welf bride, and still marries a cousin.

I instead had decided for a brother of OTL George I to marry Mary of Modena, I would like to have a D'Este Italy later on.
 
The marriage alliance between France and Poland

On his coronation at 1674 John III Sobieski wanted an alliance with France and the Ottomans against the Austrian Empire and Brandenburg in order to gain both Silesia and Prussia, even if knowing that he would have problems in his borders, he decided to go further of the alliance and marry his son, James Louis Sobieski to Marie Louise of Orleans.

On 1679, Marie Louise of Orleans marries James Louis Sobieski,
It was said that the alliance of Poland and France wrecked Christendom.

The marriage to Marie Louise of Orleans made the Sobieski Family directly related to the two Kings of Poland and Bohemia namely Wenceslaus II and Wenceslaus III, this is used as a propaganda to legitimise their hold in Poland.


Two lives of Mary of Modena
On 1679, the beautiful Mary of Modena married the King of Spain, Charles II however, Charles II of Spain died a week after the wedding, she was said to be devastated of the death but the death was a blessing in disguise to her, the death caused the throne of Spain to pass to the Austrian Habsburgs with Maria Antonia of Austria as Queen of Spain.

The Dowager Queen of Spain, Mary of Modena left Spain and later married Frederick Augustus of Hanover, he is an another D’Este and a son of Sophia of Palatinate, he and Mary united the two lineages of the D’Este Family, the Eldest and the Younger line of the D’Estes are united.


The Austrian-Ottoman War
On 1683, the war between Austria and the Ottomans, a few months after that after John III Sobieski heard of that war, the King of France, Louis XIV, John III Sobieski and Maximillian II Emannuel, the Elector of Bavaria declared war on both Austria and Brandenburg-Prussia since they want to take advantage of the Ottoman War against Austria and they are allied with the Ottomans, there is another one that declared a war against Prussia and it is Sweden ruled by Charles XI.

After the victories of the Ottomans in Vienna against the Papal, Spanish and Austrian troops in the later part of 1683 in this time the Habsburgs are also ruling Spain and Naples, the troops of John III Sobieski occupied Silesia and another of his troops led by one of his subordinates occupied Prussia, the Polish people of Silesia were happy about the Occupation and welcomed it but the Germans were not, this would lead in the partition of Silesia in Oder and Nysa Klodzko and in this time Maximillian II Emannuel occupied Bohemia and Moravia and Louis XIV Occupied the Spanish Netherlands and Charles XI of Sweden occupied Pomerania.

In this time Maximilian II Emannuel’s wife Sophia Charlotte of Hanover, the daughter of Sophia of Palatinate just gave birth to a son named Louis.

The war resulted in the defeat of Austria,Spain and Prussia against the entente of Poland, France, Bavaria, Sweden and the Ottomans.

Pope Innocent XI excommunicated the rulers of Poland, Bavaria and France that warred against Austria and Spain after their attack on Austria.

Note:
I am not proficient in writing wars so I will keep it concise.

In this case who would Elisabetta Farnese would marry, I think the son between Frederick Augustus of Hanover and Mary of Modena would marry Elisabetta Farnese, but this would unite the Hanoverian and the Portuguese Lancastrian Claims, Welf Portugal or Italy, anyone?

I have a wild thought of Maximillian II Emannuel getting Slovakia, basically Czecho-Slovakia-Bavaria but I think it is better if the Ottomans get whole of Hungary.

Who would Maria Antonia of Spain marry?

Treaty of Utrecht
The treaty of Utrecht was signed in 1685 in order to end the war and these are the terms.
-France gets the Spanish Netherlands.
-Poland gets Prussia.
-Silesia is partitioned in Ethnic lines, the Ethnic Polish regions which is Silesia North of Oder and East of Nysa Klodzko are returned to Poland with the exception of Opava while Bohemia would retain the rest.
-Brandenburg held Pomerania is ceded to Sweden
-Bavaria gets Bohemia, Moravia, the remnant of Silesia and Tyrol
-Ottomans get Hungary from the Habsburgs.
-Ottomans get the Spanish East Indies.
-Savoy is given Lombardy(Duchy of Milan).
-Maria Antonia of Spain marries Francis Louis Prince of Conti.

Because of the War and the treaty the Entente that defeated Austria and Spain had been called the Traitors of Christendom.

Due to the Treaty, Ottomans and the Bourbons are at their height due to the Bourbons ruling France and Spain but on separate lines for the Ottomans it is due to their gains in the treaty.

Savoy has a claim to Milan due to them being descendants of the French claimants of Milan that is why they got it (I initially wanted them to gain Naples and Sicily as well but I think it would wank them more).

This treaty would end the power of both Austria and Brandenburg in Germany leading to the Bavarian Unification of Germany later on.
 
Not my cup of tea ;), but good luck writing your TL.

Also IOTL John III Sobieski was in favour of an anti Ottoman alliance, but it's your TL.

BTW the German name for Silesia is Schlesien. :)
 
Top