Scenario idea: The Twilight of the black Fueher

So, this is a scenario idea I had, basically a axis victory version of the Twilight of the red Tsar

In this scenario we got a "AVRoE" and "AANW" kinda scenario, but also a factor from the "TotRT", with Hitler surviving well into the late 50s, and as his health deteriorates he began to hurt the reich too

What do you think?

Also, as we know at the end of WWII many officers were straight out rejecting Hitler orders, and they lied to him about the status of the german armed forces. If we had a scenario that Hitler becames senile, would they do the same?
 
Wouldn't "Twilight of the Brown/Black Kaiser" be a better name for such a timeline?

Agree. Twilight of the Black Kaiser is better name if we want make about same type of TL as Twilight of the Red Tsar.

Very intresting idea. Perhaps Axis win in Europe on 1946 or 1947 and Third Reich is about so bad condition as USSR on end of OTL WW2. Hitler of course should get some major stroke but he survives and begin purge Nazi leadership. Himmler probably should go when he is pretty much Nazi version of Berija. Hitler should too kill his quack doctor. Then there should be break down between Hitler and Mussolini and German-Italian War which ends very close of Hitler's reign.

This would be intresting TL.
 
Agree. Twilight of the Black Kaiser is better name if we want make about same type of TL as Twilight of the Red Tsar.

Very intresting idea. Perhaps Axis win in Europe on 1946 or 1947 and Third Reich is about so bad condition as USSR on end of OTL WW2. Hitler of course should get some major stroke but he survives and begin purge Nazi leadership. Himmler probably should go when he is pretty much Nazi version of Berija. Hitler should too kill his quack doctor. Then there should be break down between Hitler and Mussolini and German-Italian War which ends very close of Hitler's reign.

This would be intresting TL.

Twilight of the Brown/black Kaiser is a good name, i agree

What if the allies do make the D day but the germans repulse it?
 
That's not what you said...

I expressed myself badly, sorry

The idea is to have the germans to defeat the soviet union, the allies make the operation pike rendering Baku unusable until 1944. Then they still make operation overlord and invade Italy, but Overlord is pushed back. The italians still surrenders as OTL and Hitler makes a puppet Italian social republic (while annexing north italy in germany as OTL. The germans push the allies from Italy too and there is a peace treaty
 
When I saw the thread title I imagined the declining years of a territorially extensive African fascist dictatorship... :)
 
C
No no, I mean the soviets surrender somewhere in mid 1942, and then the allies make the D day in 1944 but operation overlord is stalled and pushed back

Then OP Overlord probably doesn't happen AFAIK I remember someone mentioning that in order to invade a Europe where the Germans have somehow defeated the USSR roughly 200 divisions or so you would need at bare minimum the forces required for Operation downfall if not more
 
Then OP Overlord probably doesn't happen AFAIK I remember someone mentioning that in order to invade a Europe where the Germans have somehow defeated the USSR roughly 200 divisions or so you would need at bare minimum the forces required for Operation downfall if not more

Ok, so no overlord, but what if they do push for operation husky?

Edit: Maybe the soviets hold until operation husky is launched, and so the allies decide that they need to push for europe even after the soviets surrender to prevent the invasion of Italy from being a pointless move, and invade France even knowing that their situation will not be the best and hoping that their air force is enought to make for the lack of enought land forces
 
Ok, so no overlord, but what if they do push for operation husky?

Edit: Maybe the soviets hold until operation husky is launched, and so the allies decide that they need to push for europe even after the soviets surrender to prevent the invasion of Italy from being a pointless move, and invade France even knowing that their situation will not be the best and hoping that their air force is enought to make for the lack of enought land forces

If they do that and assuming they break the breach defenses than the chances they can't be pushed back due to the presence of allied battleships of the shore chances are the Germans will not be able to push the allies back thanks to the gun line off shore and I also doubt the allies will be able to break through the Germans either so yeah welcome back to no mans land edition 2 with new 16inch shells to turn the French country side to mud and dirt

to quote Calbear on naval gunfire

In the Pacific, when you called in gunfire, it wasn't answered by a battery of 105mm howitizers firing a 40 pound shell with ~5 pounds of explosive. You got a 356mm, 1,250 pound shell with 114 pounds of explosive or a 406mm 1,900 pound shell with 155 pound bursting charge that would kill any exposed human within 100 yards of where the shell detonated. If you were danger close you got five-six 127mm guns, firing 55 pound shells with enough accuracy to hit individual vehicles, at 8-10 rounds a minute. Maneuver elements died in the Pacific.
 
If they do that and assuming they break the breach defenses than the chances they can't be pushed back due to the presence of allied battleships of the shore chances are the Germans will not be able to push the allies back thanks to the gun line off shore and I also doubt the allies will be able to break through the Germans either so yeah welcome back to no mans land edition 2 with new 16inch shells to turn the French country side to mud and dirt

to quote Calbear on naval gunfire

Maybe this situation drags for so long that they negociate a ceasefire, as the germans push the allies back in Italy

And then the scenario can start, because this gives enought condition for a fragilized reich to happen
 
Maybe this situation drags for so long that they negociate a ceasefire, as the germans push the allies back in Italy

And then the scenario can start, because this gives enought condition for a fragilized reich to happen

why? Italy is hell for attacking the advantages the Germans had in OTLs Italian campaign applies to the allies likely it just ends in another stalemate until the Wallies get the bomb
 
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